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Scarabs are the Death of Me
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Old 17 Aug 2008, 21:43   #1 (permalink)
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Default Scarabs are the Death of Me

I have a Necron friend, and whenever we play he pulls out 3, 10 man... er.... insect squads on me.

If he goes first, then he'll boost them 24 inches forward, with a 2+ cover save, with plenty of wounds to lose a few models. Next turn, I'm locked in combat, with me probably gonna lose a bunch of things, while the rest of his army comes trailing down at me. What makes this worst is that he deploys two destroyer lords to attach to the scarabs, effectively meaning I'm gonna lose a bunch of fire warriors and kroot.

So.... any advice?
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Old 17 Aug 2008, 21:59   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Scarabs are the Death of Me

Well you could try and take on the scarabs in which case you want as much ordnance as you can muster. The AFP is great as not only will it negate their saves and inflict 2 wounds each it also ignores cover saves.

Secondly is use a unit that can tie them up. They are only WS 2 so will hit you on 4's no matter what you field, if you can get them tied up it gives you an extra turn trying to phase out the enemy. Phase out should probably be easier as well if the orb is boosted up the table. Go for necron units of a single type like a lone unit of wraiths or immortals, if you can get the entire unit on the ground and there is no unit of the same type nearby they don't get a WBB roll. Concentrate en mass on a single unit to cause as much damage as possible.

And remember, if the scarabs are going to ground for a 2plus cover save then they can't move in their next turn, so by threatening the units you can perhaps save yourself a turn of grief.


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Old 17 Aug 2008, 22:30   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Scarabs are the Death of Me

Hadhfang, the scarabs don't have to go to ground to get the 2+ cover save - they're a small target, which adds +1 to their cover save.

Personally, I'd probably try to combine a pathfinder's squad's MLs and a Hammerhead's Submunitions - Take away cover, wound on 2s, insta-kill any scarabs they wound. Assuming you cover all 11 models, that'd be 9-10 wounds, 1 of which is likely saved by the destroyer lord (but will cause a wound 1/3 of the time), 4-6 of which (if you reduce the cover save to 5+, 5-7 if 6+, 8-9 if negated) will go through their cover save. Because of the way instant-death wounds are distributed in 5th edition, that means 8-10 of those scarabs are instantly KO'd. Even if you only get 2 ML hits, that's still only a 4+ save - you're still likely to get 3-5 wounds, which could still be enough to wipe that scarab swarm from the face of this earth.

Alternatively, field your deathrains with a Flamer (or, more viably, field a TL flamer with Missile Pods - not much in the way of 4+ save or light vehicles in Necron Forces)... Y'know how Airburst Frag Projectors take away cover saves, wound 2/3 of the time, ignore their armor save, and cause 2 wounds per wound? Yeah, so do flamers. Except a TL flamer is actually wounding ~89% of the time. Assuming 2 Flamers covering 6 models each (I'm assuming that's not particularly unusual), that's 1 maybe-wound on the Lord and 6-8 wounds on the scarabs, which of course would be doubled, causing 12-16 wounds - 4-5 scarabs gone. In the same situation, 2 TL Flamers would 9-11 wounds, doubled to 18-22 - 6-7 scarabs down. The AFP could easily cover all 11 models - that'd be another 4-5 scarabs biting the dust.

Hadhfang brings up a very good point for tying up your opponent in close combat, however - What happens to a scarab swarm when charged by a 10 kroot squad? First, the Lord goes first - 1-2 kroot down. Next, the kroot attack - 24-27 attacks, meaning 16-18 hits, meaning 10-12 wounds, meaning 7-8 unsaved wounds. that's another 2-3 scarabs killed. If you hit the swarm before with Flamers or an AFP, that least 2-3 scarabs to attack back - 4-5 hits, 2-3 wounds, meaning another 2-3 kroot gone. Here's the kicker - the scarab swarm if fearless, so they're taking ANOTHER 4-5 wounds they have to save against (meaning perhaps another scarab gone, 2 if a scarab was already wounded)... The Necron Destroyer Lord, however, is not. I'm still trying to figure out how that works for close combat - either the Lord has to make his own morale check (at minus 4 to minus 5 - helloooooo, leadership 5!) and potentially get swept up by the kroot OR the entire unit has to fall back (as the entire unit is NOT fearless, only the scarabs are - IC rules, pg 48), even more likely to get swept up at their majority initiative of 2. If the scarabs aren't destroyed or swept up, they're still in a bad position - they're locked up in close combat with a close-combatty troop, unable to move, only able to assault. Even if they kill the kroot on their turn, that leaves a bunch of models within Rapidfire range of guns that no longer have a 2+ cover save to deal with, not to mention the flamers/AFP/Railgun shots available.

Between a TL flamer/MP crisis unit (6-7 scarabs), a Shas'el with an Airburst Fragger (4-5 scarabs), a Railhead or two with Pathfinder support (8-10 scarabs), and a couple squads of kroot (charging into combat) you should be able to either kill or tie up every squad in that first round.

Expect to lose the kroot, but that still leaves you with an very high chance of slaughtering 360 points of scarabs and 260+ points of Necron Lords without too much difficulty.

This is all speculative on my part - I've yet to actually face a Necron army in battle. Take my advice with a grain or three of salt.
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Old 17 Aug 2008, 23:04   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Scarabs are the Death of Me

Unusual suspect, the small target only gives them plus 1 to there save, so assuming they aren't in a bunker its still only a 3 up save. Unless i'm missing something?
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Old 17 Aug 2008, 23:08   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Scarabs are the Death of Me

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Originally Posted by Hadhfang
Unusual suspect, the small target only gives them plus 1 to there save, so assuming they aren't in a bunker its still only a 3 up save. Unless i'm missing something?
I'm assuming the scarabs are Turbo-boosting (hence the 24" movement) to gain the 3+ cover save that allows (pg 76), which combined with the small target's +1 to cover save grants them a 2+ cover save.

Surprisingly good combination, that. Gotta applaud the necron player...
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Old 17 Aug 2008, 23:12   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Scarabs are the Death of Me

yea they'd need to go to ground to get a 2+ save... 4+ gets boasted up to 3+ by small target... unless its 2+ after turboboosting... daaam thats really harsh! well AFP n flamers are probs your best bet. or SMS. do they ignor cover? if so then that be useful. my mate tends to send em after my broadsides lol. basicly go to town on them with templates of all shapes n sizes. admitadly there are only 3 template weapons in the ENTIRE tau codex but oh well none of them are small blasts hehe
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Old 17 Aug 2008, 23:26   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Scarabs are the Death of Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merqu
yea they'd need to go to ground to get a 2+ save... 4+ gets boasted up to 3+ by small target... unless its 2+ after turboboosting... daaam thats really harsh! well AFP n flamers are probs your best bet. or SMS. do they ignor cover? if so then that be useful. my mate tends to send em after my broadsides lol. basicly go to town on them with templates of all shapes n sizes. admitadly there are only 3 template weapons in the ENTIRE tau codex but oh well none of them are small blasts hehe
Like I stated, Turbo-boosting grants a 3+ cover save. Small Target increases that by 1, for 2+. So yeah, that is seriously harsh... especially on a unit with 30+ wounds.

I'm a bit wary of assuming SMS ignore cover saves from Turbo-boosting - I think the cover-ignoring abilities of the SMS are directly linked to it's lack of need for LoS. I don't see how the ability to ignore LoS would allow the missile to bypass the difficulty in hitting extremely fast-moving extremely small targets.
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Old 18 Aug 2008, 00:57   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Scarabs are the Death of Me

ah yea just found me codex they don't. my mistake lol ;D
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Old 18 Aug 2008, 01:08   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Scarabs are the Death of Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unusualsuspect
I'm a bit wary of assuming SMS ignore cover saves from Turbo-boosting - I think the cover-ignoring abilities of the SMS are directly linked to it's lack of need for LoS. I don't see how the ability to ignore LoS would allow the missile to bypass the difficulty in hitting extremely fast-moving extremely small targets.
Well the SMS description state that the target only get cover save if he's in or touching Terrain that provid cover save and if said terrain lies between the shooter and the target. So you could argue that he lost the bonus from Turbo boosting and maybe the one for going to ground.
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Old 18 Aug 2008, 01:11   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Scarabs are the Death of Me

Here's another solution that I've used with pretty good success. It takes quite a bit of points, but is very effective. Take your pathfinders and light them with as much as possible. Take your trusty deathrain squad and fire at them, using the markerlights to reduce or eliminate that cover save. Since a missile pod is Instant Death to a toughness 3 swarm, each unsaved wound will eliminate a base. With decent rolls you'll kill 5 bases, and any kroot you have can finish them in melee.

Oh, and I agree with Boneguard: SMS will not ignore the cover save in this case.
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