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How big are Kroot compared to Fire Warriors?
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Old 13 Aug 2008, 22:07   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default How big are Kroot compared to Fire Warriors?

Okay, so while the Kroot models have grown on me a bit, they haven't grown enough for me to want to impliment them into my Cadre.

What I want to do is make a unit of 20 bloody, beaten up, high on stimulant injectant (explaining the higher initiiand WS), on the verge of death (explaining the no armor save) Fire Warriors to proxy/count as Kroot.

My only concern is with the new "True LOS" rules, is that the Tau Fire Warriors I will be converting might be a bit smaller than Kroot, wouldn't this be an unfair advantage for me, since it will be slightly harder to see the Fire Warriors?

Or, is the difference so tiny that it really wouldn't affect things?
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Old 13 Aug 2008, 22:21   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: How big are Kroot compared to Fire Warriors?

The kroot are slightly taller but I dunno if it would make a huge difference. But how do you plan to represent the difference in guns? Just curious.
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Old 13 Aug 2008, 22:38   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: How big are Kroot compared to Fire Warriors?

arn't stimmed up tau a little... untau?
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Old 13 Aug 2008, 23:41   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: How big are Kroot compared to Fire Warriors?

However the tau would not be on there last legs on stimulants. however high on stimulant fire warriors does no t make sense then they would get feel no pain because that is what stimulant injector does. The difference is not really much. but the kroot is a liitel taller than the fire warrior. They would work but would really detract form the fluff.
Edit Close combat trained gue'vesa would make more sense if you just hate the kroot models.
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Old 14 Aug 2008, 05:59   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: How big are Kroot compared to Fire Warriors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Innes
The kroot are slightly taller but I dunno if it would make a huge difference. But how do you plan to represent the difference in guns? Just curious.
That is what I am working on... I am not sure whether I should make them longer, by adding some drone aerials to extend the pulse rifles (since the Kroot Rifles are really long), or make them shorter (take Pulse Rifles, and cut them off just after where the Warriors rest their hand). Either way they will have blades/knives on them to make them look like they can be used to hack and slash in close combat. If they are shorter they will almost look like Tau "sawed off" pulse "shotguns" lol. Not really sure yet but I will keep you updated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gil galed
arn't stimmed up tau a little... untau?
You tell me. Stimulant Injectors are in the Battlesuit Wargear in the Codex. I believe the pilots of Crisis suits are Tau, unless I am mistaken?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Wu
However the tau would not be on there last legs on stimulants. however high on stimulant fire warriors does no t make sense then they would get feel no pain because that is what stimulant injector does. The difference is not really much. but the kroot is a liitel taller than the fire warrior.
Well, my Fire Warriors don't have a crisis suit to help keep them alive after the Stimulant Injector has been put in. If the Crisis Suit pilot was outside of his suit, took some nasty wounds, I doubt he would be able to "Feel No Pain" as easily.

Quote:

They would work but would really detract form the fluff.
Edit Close combat trained gue'vesa would make more sense if you just hate the kroot models.
Okay fine, I could make them that then :P. But wouldn't it be wierd fluffwise too, to have a squad of 20 martial artists charging the battlefield?

Maybe I need to read more Tau fluff, but despite the Tau valuing EVERY solider, I am sure they must know the art of sacrifice for the greater good - something along the lines of "We are going to die anyway, lets make the most of it" is the idea that would guide my squad of 20 guys.

But back to the main point - thank you for answering the question about the size. I definately can find fluff to back them up better, for sure, but as long as the size isn't wierd.

Has anyone thought of some pimp ideas to represent Kroot hound and make it look more "standard Tau-ish"??? I would be interested in seeing that... having some I 5 Tau in there would be cool lol.
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Old 14 Aug 2008, 06:51   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: How big are Kroot compared to Fire Warriors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innes

Maybe I need to read more Tau fluff, but despite the Tau valuing EVERY solider, I am sure they must know the art of sacrifice for the greater good - something along the lines of "We are going to die anyway, lets make the most of it" is the idea that would guide my squad of 20 guys.
That seems very contradictory to me you saying you understand that the Tau value every soldier yet a group of tau apparently are out for death and glory. I just can't see that working, they would do everything they could to leave the battle if there was no chance for survival. The tau wouldn't even sacrifice kroot or vespids in that manner I can't think why they would sacrifice their own firewarriors.
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Old 14 Aug 2008, 07:05   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: How big are Kroot compared to Fire Warriors?

I think you could just make some fire warriors from a new third sept world that are just better at Hand to hand than the average Tau do to the new world the have developed on. That would be more fluffly than Tweaked out Fire Warriors (sounds kinda like Tau Khorne Berzerkers)
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Old 14 Aug 2008, 13:16   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: How big are Kroot compared to Fire Warriors?

I've recently started a similar modeling project for my own cadre, Only I'm going for the Glaive weilding tau Martial artists.

I think if there is a stumbling block with your fluff it isn't the difference between a stimulant and an painkiller, its the attitude of the unit as a whole. Whilst I can believe tau would understand the concept of sacrifice for the greater good, I think this would be something reached during extreme pressure on the battlefield. Where as the idea that they have special drugs and modified weapons, kind of suggests they were looking for a bit of a scrap before they reached the battle lines.

Technology speaking there's no reason for this not to be acceptable, its the psychology/ideology of the race that's the problem.

So I'd be asking why have these tau chosen to forsake the higher technology of the Normal firecast warrior in favor of the more brutal approach? Are they dedicated followers of Farsight's teachings? Part of a cadre trying to better understand the way its opponents fight so they either learn from them, or perhaps just learn how to overcome them better?
Or Fishstick's idea, A Tau equivilent of Catachan jungle fighters? which could have some great modeling potential.

As for Kroot hounds, how about modified Drones? they start with Initiative 4 so its less of a jump, though the WS is a bigger differance, but it would keep the aesthetic, which is what it seems you're after.

Are you going to post pictures once you've started work on them?
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Old 14 Aug 2008, 17:35   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: How big are Kroot compared to Fire Warriors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Flibble

That seems very contradictory to me you saying you understand that the Tau value every soldier yet a group of tau apparently are out for death and glory. I just can't see that working, they would do everything they could to leave the battle if there was no chance for survival. The tau wouldn't even sacrifice kroot or vespids in that manner I can't think why they would sacrifice their own firewarriors.
Well, basically the idea was that there is no chance for retreat, so this is it. I don't believe in a situation where there is no retreat possible the Tau would just cower and die - they would fight until the very death. This is not for glory, this is for the fact there is nothing left to do but fight. That being said, I am new to the Tau race and fluff, so you would know better than I what suits the Tau and what doesn't. The fact I am learning from this disucssion is that the Tau when faced with no chance of survival would probably stick back and fight how they fight best - from a distance - so they could kill as many enemies as possible. They wouldn't charge into hand to hand combat, where they do not excel - they would blast the heck out of the enemy from a distance and keep that distance and shooting going on as long as possible. It is this realization that has lead me to look more into Fishstick3000's and Tauist's ideas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishstick3000
I think you could just make some fire warriors from a new third sept world that are just better at Hand to hand than the average Tau do to the new world the have developed on. That would be more fluffly than Tweaked out Fire Warriors (sounds kinda like Tau Khorne Berzerkers)
Good call. Faster, better at hand to hand combat, just as good at shooting, but in order to compliment there hand to hand skills, they were given lighter armor and a different weapon to help them advanced on the field and be more agile once in combat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauist
I've recently started a similar modeling project for my own cadre, Only I'm going for the Glaive weilding tau Martial artists.
That sounds awesome. Show me... now! lol.

Quote:
So I'd be asking why have these tau chosen to forsake the higher technology of the Normal firecast warrior in favor of the more brutal approach? Are they dedicated followers of Farsight's teachings? Part of a cadre trying to better understand the way its opponents fight so they either learn from them, or perhaps just learn how to overcome them better?
I would have to say this squad are a combination of The Farsight School of Thought and the "better understanding the enemy philosophy". I see the Tau as based off Japanese culture, and the Japanese after feeling inferior to the West during the 1800s vowed they would never allow that to happen in the next century. Determination lead to a feudal island nation becoming one of the strongest empires in the world in less than 50 years. This drive and ambition I see in the Tau, and I think that some of its warriors would object to how everyone seems to say "What makes you think the Tau can fight in close combat?" and reply with "What makes you think the Tau can't fight in close combat". The Tau are smaller and weaker, yes, but intense training can lead to using an enemies assumed initiative and strength against him.


Quote:
As for Kroot hounds, how about modified Drones? they start with Initiative 4 so its less of a jump, though the WS is a bigger differance, but it would keep the aesthetic, which is what it seems you're after.
This could be very cool... I am not sure if I should have them lower to the ground though, or flying high. I would need to add blades to those suckers. It does make the most sense, and I do love the look of drones.

Quote:

Are you going to post pictures once you've started work on them?
Definately, but right now I barely have a core army, so I need to get a few more suits before I get the Kroot!

Thanks for the help everyone!!







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Old 14 Aug 2008, 21:58   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: How big are Kroot compared to Fire Warriors?

I saw somewhere some house rules for a group of cc oriented fire warriors. Their background had them as the bodyguard of an ethereal that had died while they were supposed to protect him. Their failure meant they would actively seek death for redemption, like a slayer dwarf. They were equipped with power glaives, and went by the name "the Silent Ones"

Employing a little of this into your own concept Sting2, I think you could fashion some tau or gue'vesa models and utilize the kroot stats. Biologically and culturally Tau don't like hand to hand fighting. They are among the slowest to react, the same initiative as a toaster (necron), with average strength and no power weapons. So I would write up something to the effect that these failed bodyguards are so disturbed by their failure to protect their ethereal master, they've fallen into their own private mont'au, and take some kind of combat stimulant that increases speed, skill and strength but ultimately would kill them.

But fair warning, anytime anyone puts fire warriors as close combat capable (forget even cc specialists) purists will holler at you that it isn't fluffy. But, in any event, I wish you lots of luck with your conversions.

Bocephus
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