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Skysweep Squadron
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Old 04 Aug 2008, 07:09   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Skysweep Squadron

Am I missing something, or is the Skysweep Squadren datasheet useless? It says that the markerlights are anti-air, but says nothing about the seeker missiles. It seems that, according to RAW, the missiles hit only on 6s. I'm pretty sure that the intent was to make them hit on 2s, but even so...
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Old 04 Aug 2008, 21:55   #2 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Skysweep Squadren

Erm seeker missiles require a markerlight hit to be fired, seeker missiles allways hit on a 2+ regardless.....
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Old 04 Aug 2008, 23:25   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Skysweep Squadren

Quote:
Originally Posted by Animist
Erm seeker missiles require a markerlight hit to be fired, seeker missiles allways hit on a 2+ regardless.....
They do not. The entry said that the missiles fire with an "assumed ballistic skill of 5."
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Old 05 Aug 2008, 01:43   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Skysweep Squadron

macboy_geoff is right on all counts: The markerlights are the only thing that is anti-air, so the seekers - just as before - only hit on 6s. I asked a redshirt at the battle bunker in B-more and he confirmed it. I guess they figured that the sheer volume of missiles potentially being fired at a given flyer would eventually get you a 6, which seems like a great big honkin' waste of points to me. If memory serves the command devilfish has a networked markerlight, which is kinda neat, might be handy on a pathfinder warfish. Probably not worth the point cost for the formation though. I'd say it's better anti-air than nothing, but only just. If nothing = 0, then the Skysweep Squadron = a 1, maybe 1.5. If I knew I was facing flyers, I'd nicely ask my opponent if I could use the Skyray rules in IA:3.

In a dark way it makes sense that this formation would be useless. I mean look at the other contradictions in our army - of course the Skyray can't do anything about things in the sky, and we have a fast attack choice that has Heavy weapons and is mounted in a vehicle that isn't Fast... :
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Old 05 Aug 2008, 04:54   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Skysweep Squadron

Your Redshirt has to be wrong. There's no way that'd be their intent. Look at, for example, a hydra flak tank. Guided missiles should, logically, be better at tracking flyers than assault cannons. Skyrays, even according to the formation description, are intended to be retardedly good against flyers, even presenting a serious threat to the Eldar's pilots.

I suspect the writers assumed that the missiles were still worded so that they hit on 2+. If not, I'll pay the 30 points extra listed in IA3.
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Old 05 Aug 2008, 06:53   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Skysweep Squadron

I also like that the datasheet says the entire squadron's markerlights are "area networked." Well, thanks guys - you know, cause the Skyray's Markerlights were aren't already networked, and because vehicles can't already use others' markerlights.
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I picture the Ethereal looking out the window of the Devilfish from his seat: "Hey this isn't the way to Applebee's?! Where are you guys taking...Aw man, a battle?! Aw, you guys are total dicks, I swear! I'm still wearing my bathrobe! Can I at least have a gun? What do you mean you don't have any extra? What should I do, hit Khorne Berzerkers with my symbol of office? Man, you're gonna be sorry if I die... dicks."
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Old 06 Aug 2008, 05:17   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Skysweep Squadron

Quote:
Originally Posted by macboy_geoff
Your Redshirt has to be wrong. There's no way that'd be their intent.
Wouldn't be the first time a redshirt was wrong. But going by RAW I'm hard pressed to argue with him. And one can only imagine what their intent was, as those rule folks have done stranger things. I forget who it was, but someone said that it seems like the Tau are too balanced, like they wanted to give them all these good abilities but had to nerf them somehow in an effort to keep them "balanced," whereas with the other armies there wasn't so much emphasis on balance. Maybe that's what it is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by macboy_geoff
Look at, for example, a hydra flak tank. Guided missiles should, logically, be better at tracking flyers than assault cannons. Skyrays, even according to the formation description, are intended to be retardedly good against flyers, even presenting a serious threat to the Eldar's pilots.
Your logic is undeniable. But sadly as we've seen time and time again, fluff and moreover logic have little impact on the rules and game play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macboy_geoff
I suspect the writers assumed that the missiles were still worded so that they hit on 2+. If not, I'll pay the 30 points extra listed in IA3.
One would hope. After getting the negatory on the first question I asked if it was still viable to use the IA:3 rules for the Skyray then, which sadly it is not as now the Skyray is suppose to be used as per the codex. So what I'd do is ask my opponent if he'd allow me to use the IA:3 rules and plead my/your case to them, and seeing as how this is suppose to be a fun game and all one would hope he'd agree. It is worth noting however that with the AA mount the seekers on the Skyray only hit flyers on a 4+, it must remain stationary to do so, and it can't fire the other weapons not on the AA mount when used in an AA role (so just the markerlights and seekers, no secondary systems.)

Seems to me the best combination are the IA:3 rules and the marker hits from an Armored Interdiction Cadre, as those are automatic hits that can be placed on any target within LOS of the command tank, even and especially a flyer. ^-^
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Old 06 Aug 2008, 05:21   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Skysweep Squadron

I don't see why the IA:3 rules aren't still valid. The Apocalypse rulebook definitely lists multiple sources for unit information, including IA:3.
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Originally Posted by Col.Angus
I picture the Ethereal looking out the window of the Devilfish from his seat: "Hey this isn't the way to Applebee's?! Where are you guys taking...Aw man, a battle?! Aw, you guys are total dicks, I swear! I'm still wearing my bathrobe! Can I at least have a gun? What do you mean you don't have any extra? What should I do, hit Khorne Berzerkers with my symbol of office? Man, you're gonna be sorry if I die... dicks."
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Old 06 Aug 2008, 05:43   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Skysweep Squadron

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott
I don't see why the IA:3 rules aren't still valid. The Apocalypse rulebook definitely lists multiple sources for unit information, including IA:3.
In those cases (Tetra and Knarloc Riders come to mind) their rules haven't been updated since IA:3 came out, whereas things like the Skyray, the Piranha, and the Great Knarloc all have more recent versions, the first two in the codex and the third in Apocalypse. Whenever new rules come out for something GW wants you to use the newest rules, but in the case of the skyray that wouldn't stop me from wanting to/trying to use the IA:3 rules (as they are far better and, well, actually make sense), but as a courtesy I'd ask my opponent before I did.

The Skyray is after all an odd conundrum in that way - when the most recent Tau codex came out flyers only existed in Forge World stuff and rarely saw use. Then Apocalypse came out and we had official, non-FW flyer rules but here we have our Skyray, stripped of it's original intent. Now with Reload this Skysweep formation is suppose to remedy that, but they just strait up dropped the ball, or at the very least didn't proof read or play test it. :-\
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Old 06 Aug 2008, 06:43   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Skysweep Squadron

And like hell am I going to use the Barracuda datasheet over the IA:3 rules. I mean, a Tau aircraft without access to a targeting array!

I was extremely displeased.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Col.Angus
I picture the Ethereal looking out the window of the Devilfish from his seat: "Hey this isn't the way to Applebee's?! Where are you guys taking...Aw man, a battle?! Aw, you guys are total dicks, I swear! I'm still wearing my bathrobe! Can I at least have a gun? What do you mean you don't have any extra? What should I do, hit Khorne Berzerkers with my symbol of office? Man, you're gonna be sorry if I die... dicks."
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