Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Tau's greatest enemy? a good rules lawyer
Reply
Old 30 Jul 2008, 03:33   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,958
Default Tau's greatest enemy? a good rules lawyer

First of all, I don't subscribe to these rules interpretations. I think they're just badly written, but by a strict interpretation, I can't argue against them.

Rule problem #1: Crisis suits moving after a deepstrike. The 5th edition rulebook states that Jetpack infantry "only move 6" when using their packs, but are always allowed to move 6" in the Assault phase, even if they don't assault."(rulebook, page 52) I would interpret this (because of the "always") that they can move after a deepstrike, but the codex from 4th edition specifies otherwise (bottom of page 27). Since codex overrules rulebook, this is the interpretation that we have to go with. Not happy, but I can live with it.

Rule problem #2: Here's where it gets bad. Jetpack infantry has the Relentless rule, which means they can fire heavy weapons on the move. Sounds great. BUT, under XV8 Crisis battlesuit on page 27, the Tau Codex says This ability does not extend to heavy weapons, however, and the user must be stationary to fire them. Actually, I'm glad I looked it up because I thought it said that under Stealth armour as well. So, a stealth suit team-leader can fire his markerlight on the move, and any attached marker drones can as well. Crisis suits do not have any heavy weapon options, which is good since they couldn't fire them even though they're Relentless. Any marker drones they control can fire on the move, though, which is just weird.

This can't be intentional because it just doesn't make sense, but that's what RAW states.
knightperson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 Jul 2008, 04:06   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 892
Default Re: Tau's greatest enemy? a good rules lawyer

Actually, there are very good arguments against both.


Rule problem #1:
It's interesting you didn't read all of the XV8 Crisis battlesuit description on p. 27:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codex: Tau Empire, p. 27
... may be deployed using the Deep Strike special rule if the mission being played permits it (though he many not make the additional 6" move in the turn he arrives.)
The codex specifically states that the 6" not-assault-assault move is not permitted after Deep Striking.


Rule problem #2:
As you pointed out, p. 27 requires that the battlesuit "be stationary" to fire heavy weapons. In the 5th edition rulebook, p. 52, it is clarified that jet pack infantry now have the "Relentless" special rule. As detailed on p. 76, "Relentless models can shoot with rapid fire and heavy weapons counting as stationary, even if they moved in the previous Movement phase." Give that p. 27 of Codex: Tau Empire specifically says "must be stationary", and that the 5th edition rulebook specifically says that Relentless models count as being stationary, I don't think there's a case to be made here.
On top of that, the paragraph on p. 27 opens with "Crisis Suits are Jump Infantry subject to the Jetpack special rules, as described in the Warhammer 40,000 Unit Types rule section."


No, neither of these are good arguments against the Tau. They are pathetic attempts to infuriate players, not even based in the "Rules As Written" they supposedly draw their legitimacy from.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Col.Angus
I picture the Ethereal looking out the window of the Devilfish from his seat: "Hey this isn't the way to Applebee's?! Where are you guys taking...Aw man, a battle?! Aw, you guys are total dicks, I swear! I'm still wearing my bathrobe! Can I at least have a gun? What do you mean you don't have any extra? What should I do, hit Khorne Berzerkers with my symbol of office? Man, you're gonna be sorry if I die... dicks."
Elliott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 Jul 2008, 04:58   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,814
Default Re: Tau's greatest enemy? a good rules lawyer

A purely RAW effect that would cripple Tau armies (if I saw anyone us it, but not even die-hard rules nazis seem to want to) is the poor wording for our twin weapons systems and multi-tracker upgrade for the suit.
__________________


Seventh Sanctum signature oddities.
Alignment: Neutral Pessimistic
Area of Magical Study: Practical Chronomancy
Favorite Spells: Divine Spell of the Cotton Candy Golem and Field of Bacon.

Proud supporter of Joe Wood!

Makes this your one good deed a day.
http://www.thehungersite.com/
enderwiggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 Jul 2008, 06:09   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 50
Default Re: Tau's greatest enemy? a good rules lawyer

When giving an opinion on someones farsight army list I noticed something.

It states that crisis suits are given 1+ in number of suits taken just like Fire warriors. Why would it say this? There already is no limit on the number of crisis units you can take.

If stealth suits can now JSJ/move and shoot thier markerlights like the stingray this makes them a much stronger marker light source.
RB25DET is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 Jul 2008, 06:24   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,814
Default Re: Tau's greatest enemy? a good rules lawyer

Quote:
Originally Posted by RB25DET
When giving an opinion on someones farsight army list I noticed something.

It states that crisis suits are given 1+ in number of suits taken just like Fire warriors. Why would it say this? There already is no limit on the number of crisis units you can take.

If stealth suits can now JSJ/move and shoot thier markerlights like the stingray this makes them a much stronger marker light source.
That means you must take at least one squad of them.
__________________


Seventh Sanctum signature oddities.
Alignment: Neutral Pessimistic
Area of Magical Study: Practical Chronomancy
Favorite Spells: Divine Spell of the Cotton Candy Golem and Field of Bacon.

Proud supporter of Joe Wood!

Makes this your one good deed a day.
http://www.thehungersite.com/
enderwiggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 Jul 2008, 13:01   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Gatineau (Québec) Canada
Posts: 6,212
Send a message via MSN to Boneguard Send a message via Yahoo to Boneguard
Default Re: Tau's greatest enemy? a good rules lawyer

Quote:
Originally Posted by knightperson
Rule problem #2: Here's where it gets bad. Jetpack infantry has the Relentless rule, which means they can fire heavy weapons on the move. Sounds great. BUT, under XV8 Crisis battlesuit on page 27, the Tau Codex says This ability does not extend to heavy weapons, however, and the user must be stationary to fire them. Actually, I'm glad I looked it up because I thought it said that under Stealth armour as well. So, a stealth suit team-leader can fire his markerlight on the move, and any attached marker drones can as well. Crisis suits do not have any heavy weapon options, which is good since they couldn't fire them even though they're Relentless. Any marker drones they control can fire on the move, though, which is just weird..
Kind of moot. Elliott gave an excellent explanation. Plus you only have to look at the Advanced Stabilisation System, which allow broadside to fire they Railgun and giving them slow and purposeful.

If you read Slow and Purposeful, it refers back to the relentless rule which allows to fire heavy weapon as if you had remain stationary.

So yeah I got to agree the two 'problems' you mentionned are not.
__________________
For the Greater Good!
For Ksi'm'yen and the 76th Moracre Light Armoured Guard

I Invite you to join my collective story and to add to it.

My ascension to GODHOOD
Boneguard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 Jul 2008, 13:45   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,519
Default Re: Tau's greatest enemy? a good rules lawyer

The rules of the core book arnt always over-ruled by the codex. Always go by the rules of whichever has been published more recently whenever there is a conflict. If a rule in the 5th ed core contradicts the codex made from 4th ed, the core rules wins
__________________
Col.Angus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 Jul 2008, 13:47   #8 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: On the Midnight Ocean
Posts: 26,404
Send a message via MSN to Wargamer
Default Re: Tau's greatest enemy? a good rules lawyer

Both of these can be answered with ease;

5th Edition overrides the Codex.

Tau Empires is out of date by a notable margin. Not to the extent of the Dark Eldar, but it is getting there. It was not written with 5th in mind, it was written with 4th in mind (probably with the intent to break it, given some of the combos that could be done).

Regardless of what the Codex says, the BRB takes priority.
__________________
Farewell, Kangaroo Joe, you shall not be forgotten.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
"Wargamer is never wrong, Frodo Baggins; he knows precisely the rules he means to."
Wargamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 Jul 2008, 16:45   #9 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,814
Default Re: Tau's greatest enemy? a good rules lawyer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
Both of these can be answered with ease;

5th Edition overrides the Codex.

Tau Empires is out of date by a notable margin. Not to the extent of the Dark Eldar, but it is getting there. It was not written with 5th in mind, it was written with 4th in mind (probably with the intent to break it, given some of the combos that could be done).

Regardless of what the Codex says, the BRB takes priority.
You can not even begin to say that, when they published that garbage in the Eldar codex or quite a few others I could name! Our Fourth edition codex was among the most fair ones there was!
__________________


Seventh Sanctum signature oddities.
Alignment: Neutral Pessimistic
Area of Magical Study: Practical Chronomancy
Favorite Spells: Divine Spell of the Cotton Candy Golem and Field of Bacon.

Proud supporter of Joe Wood!

Makes this your one good deed a day.
http://www.thehungersite.com/
enderwiggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 Jul 2008, 17:02   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,519
Default Re: Tau's greatest enemy? a good rules lawyer

I sence a little bitterness flavouring that comment. And indeed no unbiased observer can say the Tau are "breaking" 4th ed or any other. Just cause they had you your ass for a hat, doesnt mean theyre broken.

Craftworld on the other hand are the most broken cheese codex, and deserve to be over written by more fair and balanced Eldar codexes.
__________________
Col.Angus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pantinator 3: Rise of the cleaner lawyer... Impulse Serious Debate and Discussion 2 07 Jan 2009 06:46
Fuzzy area with rules: shotting at an enemy when 2 other enemys are in combat Angel of Death General 40K 14 31 Oct 2008 00:21
The Eldar, one of Tau's greatest enemies? Def3nd3r Tau 28 20 Sep 2008 18:11
Lawyer Sues Cleaners for $67 Million over a Lost Pair of Pants Gada Mazaha Serious Debate and Discussion 44 28 Jun 2007 03:49
FoF Rules Lawyer needed Aunshasta Tau 18 14 Mar 2006 09:01