[Knight Actual]

shoots better (5.56%)
better mobility (jetpack)
can deepstrike
2 points more

but no upgrade options

so.... this unit is rather hyper efficient no?: ~200 points plus change

Shas'el
Burst Cannon
Missle pod
Targetting Array
Multi Tracker
bonding knife
drone controller + 2 gun drones

8x gun drones

8.05 pulse hits and 1.66 msl pod hits before marker assistance.

[magickrat4]

Originally Posted by Knight Actual

shoots better (5.56%)
better mobility (jetpack)
can deepstrike
2 points more

but no upgrade options

so.... this unit is rather hyper efficient no?: ~200 points plus change

Shas'el
Burst Cannon
Missle pod
Targetting Array
Multi Tracker
bonding knife
drone controller + 2 gun drones

8x gun drones

8.05 pulse hits and 1.66 msl pod hits before marker assistance.

You forgot to mention that they can not hold objectives.

[Unusualsuspect]

You aren't painting the whole picture, though.

Each drone costs 20% more, which puts that 5.56% increase in accuracy in context. If both are shooting, the Fire Warriors will outgun the Gun Drones.

Drones are not troops, and thus cannot claim objectives, merely contest them (a task they're pretty good at, actually).

Drones don't have the option of 30" range that a Fire Warrior (with a Pulse Rifle), and can't double-tap when within 12" like said Fire Warrior could (FW are already more point-efficient for killing - this just rubs salt in the Drone's wounds, metaphorically speaking). Though capable of getting within shooting distance faster than carbine-equipped FWs (less so in 5th due to the Run option), drones and carbines starting from the same place will have the same effective range (24") outside of difficult/dangerous/impassible terrain.

Drones come in a max unit of 8, Fire Warriors a max unit of 12. This can be extremely important when one is trying to force a pinning test, or just about any time when you want reliability - getting close to the average number of kills is more likely the more dice you roll.

Clearly drones don't have the raw killing power of a similarly-priced Fire Warrior squad, and they have fewer wounds at the same save, point for point. Drones can, of course, mitigate these INefficiencies through their undeniably superior mobility (moreso when the FW are footslogging than when being carted around by a Devilfish, but even then) - they're strength lies not in their firepower, but in their ability to bring that firepower to bare against difficult-to-target foes from unexpected directions while hopefully avoiding as much return fire as possible.

So I disagree with the statement that Drones are better than Fire Warriors - each serves it's purpose, and their relative strengths and weaknesses are far too strongly dependent on terrain and the reaction of one's opponent.





Concerning the "Hyper-efficient" unit:

A Crisis suit +10 drones is one heckuva lot of models for a unit whose survivability, cost, and firepower are at least somewhat based on the ability to hide from return fire. How are you going to hide those in order to make that loss of shooty power worth it?

You've also hamstrung yourself when it comes to what will probably be a limited number of ML hits - you either spend them on drones increasing accuracy (and do diddly squat for the Shas'el who is already sitting pretty on BS 5) or you save the hits for reducing cover saves or Pinning tests, relying more on luck to get that wound needed to force a Pinning test in the first place.

I'm not saying the unit is entirely without use - it's nice to have 10 pinning weapons with Strength 5, especially mobile ones capable of responding to threats across the table in a couple turns. It's simply tactically challenging to get the unit to earn back the points you spent on it.

[Knight Actual]

I guess drones > firewarrior is an overbroad statement

firewarriors have drones beat hands down at pegging enemies over long distances. They are also able to muster larger numbers (24 drones = 3 Fast choices, 24 firewarrior = 2 troop choices).

But, for the purpose of moving up to engage, or manuvering in limited line of sight circumstances, drones have the firewarriors beat. When firewarriors purchase manuverability, their points costs are competitive. Firewarriors on devilfish w/ disruptor can put out a pulse hit for 17 points during fish of fury. Drones put out a hit for 21 points. however, drones have a 24" stand off distance where firewarriors must end 12" to the enemy. This means the drones will output their firepower more often as they need not take time to embark/disembark. Furthermore, devilfishes are vulnerable to lucky shots that stun, or hurt the fish whereas drones will continue to be a threat unless firepower is dedicated to their elimination.

firewarrior doesn't perform as well as drones when equipped with carbines.

on the efficient unit. - this unit is in leiu of a fish of fury. it can dish out almost 10 pulse+ rounds per turn before any mklight support. It kills .42 less marines than the bare bone fish of fury, but have the added benefit of being able to "stand off" at 24 inches and providing protection for the commander as well. I've played a few 5th ed games... and JSJ as protection for IC is gone. Without fortune in terrain, the commander will not likely be able to both stay alive as well as contribute meaningfully at the same time. This setup allows the commander to both survive AND contribute.

pinning is icing, I've never gunned for it. the payoff is too low for the number of marker lights needed.