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kroot and help against thosand sons
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Old 01 May 2005, 10:23   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default kroot and help against thosand sons

right

I play against a very nasty person at GW who annoys me so i plan to beat him sometime.

Problem-Hes a very good play who I have never won a battle against :'(.

We use 40k in 40mins rules but with the AV rules taken out with 500 pts.This is the list I have been using:

8FW
-Shas'ui
-Fish
-DL

HH
-Rail
-BC
-MT
-DL

HH
-Rail
-BC
-MT
-DL

I switch the railgun to ion sometimes if im agaist mass marine.

He uses something like this

8 thousand sons(he says they have 2 wounds is this true)with champion?and doom bolt?
chaos sorceror with 4 thrall wizards?
6-8 nasty flame daemons? lol

can someone suggest a tatic and should i use rail or ion head?

thanks

oh aswell while im here im thinking of investing in 60-80 odd kroot.Is it worth it?

hl34
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Old 01 May 2005, 12:29   #2 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: kroot and help against thosand sons

With each marine having 2 wounds each, the Ion Cannon is far supperior in this situation, more shots, more kills. The submunition just isnt going to cut it, and the rail gun, while bringing one down a turn (or two), you could be getting so many more shots. Burst Cannons are a good idea, it allows you to saturate the enemy.

Kroot, personally, i dont like em. But, if you like em, go for it. This is your army, your game.

And yes, the 1000 sons are some crazy bastards, even if they have been castrated in 4th ed.

My suggestion for tactics? CONCENTRATE YOUR FIREPOWER. Everything hits a squad, take out the fast demons first, then, hit the slow walking Marines. But have EVERYTHING fire at one unit at a time. Thats the best way of dealing with it. Make sure it is on the ground and not moving, then, aqquire another target.
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Old 01 May 2005, 13:04   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: kroot and help against thosand sons

Goyder pretty much got it right.

However, I have to disagree with him about kroot. I take kroot vs. everyone, even marines. they're cheap and extraordinarily effective as 'pillbox' troops.

In other words, you hide your kroot in the forest, >6 inches from the edge, and shoot and anyone that comes near. Even if they are the worst Tau ranged weapon, they're still basically bolters (just different AP) and Kroot have the same BS as Fire Warriors

This'll annoy your enemy so he'll usually send a large chunk of his army to deal with those kroot. However, 20 kroot, perhaps with Kroot hounds, defending cover, 2 attacks per kroot at a space marine's strength--that's pretty dangerous.

Of course, your kroot will probably get overwhelmed, but that's no real cause for concern. Kroot serve as a great 'speedbump', slowing up and bleeding the devastatingly powerful enemy CC units until you can get the rest of your army into position (Which, if you're playing static tau, takes some time indeed).

For example, in a game I played, me and a friend as tau against orks and chaos marines, we put all 32 of our kroot a forest by the flank. The ork players' trukk-mounted boyz (basically his whole army) dismounted and charged the kroot. The kroot didn't perform great, but they did kill plenty of boyz and enabled us to get 3 fire warrior squads, 2 crisis squads, a shas'el, and 5 stealthsuits to get into position to destroy the surviving orks
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Old 01 May 2005, 14:39   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: kroot and help against thosand sons

Tzeentch marked Marines definately have 2 wounds. On top of that, they always move as if in difficult terrain, ie: slow! So if you have even any kind of basic movement that is faster than him, you can dance and rejoice. His champion has Doombolt, which is nothing but a heavy bolter statline with the range of a burst cannon. If he sacrifices a thrall wizard he may use it again (but only once more per turn). The daemons sound like Flamers of Tzeentch, who all have heavy bolter statline powers (Doombolt). They too have 2 wounds, but are very weak (T3 and a 5+ invulnerable save).

How do you triumph? Lose the tanks. Hammerheads in that small of a game like this? You don't feel guilty at all? And he still wins? How does he even touch your vehicles?

Anyhow, give some Stealthsuits a shot. They're faster than the marines and you won't be worried about being assaulted any time soon. Also, XV15's destroy daemons like no one's business--simple to do so. A submunition round will insa-kill the Flamers of Tzeentch by the way, if they fail that 5+ invulnerable save (which they will).

To kill the Thousand Sons marines, S8 will insta-kill the 2 wound marines. Remember that the champion does -not- have two wounds (he's normal). Plasma and Fusion blasters are still your friend here as 3 suits configured in this way, up close, will be able to destroy half his marines and then hop back 6 inches and he will not be able to follow you quickly (they move in difficult terrain for movement and assault... they will not be able to do that in 12 inches without insane 6's for each roll, twice in a row).

Try more options -- tanks like this in 40kn40ms? I really don't see the point of that...
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Old 01 May 2005, 18:01   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: kroot and help against thosand sons

neither do I but I didnt make the rules up. So im just trying to beat people who i couldnt of beaten before.I have not played this person with the army yet.

His sorcecor has a S8 magic weapon?(im not sure if he cheats or takes advantage of people not knowing the rules)

the only time i have played him with tau is in a combat patrol game where he destroyed my FoF and my PF(seekers)so i cant use FoF because i will not kill ne1 and they will shoot me back and kill me.

But on the kroot bit i am thinking of getting 60-80 to completly overwhelm my opponant have you got anything against me getting 60-80 of them before i commit my self to buying them.

thanks
hl34
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Old 01 May 2005, 18:39   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: kroot and help against thosand sons

Pathfinders and Kroot are definitely going to be helpful against them, but beware, Doombolt massed on daemons will eat Kroot alive. Also, that champ is probably sporting Doombolt & Bolt of Change (bolt of change is assault 1, 24 inches, S8 AP2). If he sacrifices a Thrall, he can use both in the same turn (nasty). This character is -extremely- expensive, so waste the Marines and you pretty much have the game. The daemons are easy to break, they're just dangerous in their attacks.

I would advise you to use your range to your advantage as they're limited to 24 inches for maximum range, 18 inches for medium range and 12 inches for the mega-kill zone of their fire-power.

Seeker missiles, 24 inch plasma and 30 inch pulse rifles will put a stop to them
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Old 01 May 2005, 19:04   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: kroot and help against thosand sons

I advise No Seekers, they are expensive and not really worth it as your using how many seekers? Vs The Marines they are good for Insta-kill (If you can, Ive never played 1ksons) but a waste of points IMO.

I'd go with 2 Stealth Squads (Or 1 Crisis Squad for Plasma goodness) and a FCW squad, relatively mobile and can pour on the shots, once the Daemons are down then the slow Marines should be easy pickings. If he is apparently using these "Heavy Bolter statlines" on a short range weapon, then this could be nasty for your Suits, but the volume really doesnt seem enough, especially when these "Flamers with Heavy Bolters" are down, which sounds very easy to do with a Stealth Team.

So for the Daemons use Stealths, these should kill them easily as long you you use your assault moves well, this is where its important.

The Marines are slow, so hop into range or in front of cover, shoot and pop back. Don't let them use those powerful beams or whatever those Chaos wimps are using ^^

I have no idea about this 'Wizard Squad'. The Wizard sounds pretty tough, but the "Thralls" sound weak. Who Knows, stay away from their gun, shoot the Daemons first, then the Marines who are slow but very tough, and don't get shot too much.

Good Luck
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Old 01 May 2005, 19:16   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: kroot and help against thosand sons

Espion:

Daemons are summoned by the marines. In our case, seeker missiles are incredibly useful against 1k Sons as it insta-kills them. 4 Seekers will cost us 40 points and will instantly mush 96 points of marines. It's a great deal. Also, due to their extreme cost and small squad in the format, this is a huge chunk of the squad (probably half or even more) which makes it much easier for a dakka unit like stealthsuits or firewarriors to easily saturate and remove the remaining marines before turn 2 even begins, before the daemons even arrive. If there's no icon to summon, the daemons don't arrive and you win instantly.
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Old 01 May 2005, 19:32   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: kroot and help against thosand sons

pathfinders and seekers hmmmmm still ill try and fit a hammer head in

hl34
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Old 01 May 2005, 19:38   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: kroot and help against thosand sons

Ok Mal, like I said I'm not so sure when it comes to Chaos in general.

A HH and Pathfinders will cost you, you won't have much room for Stealths which really come into their own in these small point games. Consider not using the HH but getting Stealths.

So your list would basically be:

Pathfinders+Seekers

FCW+Devilfish

Stealths/Crisis

Good Luck
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