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Broadsides or Hammerheads?
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Old 26 Apr 2005, 20:08   #1 (permalink)
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Default Broadsides or Hammerheads?

The other day I stumbled upon an idea while playing Chaos. Mainly because this chaos player runs a IW team with 3-6 Oblitorators, and about 8 Termies.

So I would always run 3 HH w/ Rail Gun with out question, until i finally realized, they were such big bullet magnets, that they will basically always be stunned, or weapon destroyed and it sucks. I run a 180 pt HH w/ RG, SMS, TL, MT, DL.

So the idea I had would be 3 squads of 3 Broadsides all with LT, so they can shoot at seperate targets if desired. So then I would have 9 Railguns vs. 3 (or 1 for that matter seems how my HH are always stunned).

I could place my Broadsides inside of buildings and such for cover. Or I could even give them shield generators for a 4+ inv (even though its freaking expensive).

9 Broadsides will probably be more to worry about than one hammerhead. And even though the broadsides dont get submunitions, against CMS, the Sub probably wont be that effective anyway. But 9 railguns will be effective. What do you think?
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Old 26 Apr 2005, 20:30   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Broadsides or Hammerheads?

It all depends on you and your opponent really Freaky Beef.

Against pure tanks--the Broadsides are indeed a better choice, however, should a single lascannon wound your XV-88, it is insta-killed and gone. That's not good since all the IW's have access to quite a number of Lascannons.

IW lists typically have a lot of high powered, low ap shots, but they only have them--they generally miss the whole mid-range and low-end scales (like bolters, heavy bolters, plasma). So you could just grant a few gundrones to your XV-88's and let them either (a) absorb a few lascannon hits (b) get mowed to pieces by massed heavy bolter or autocannon fire from obliterators. Tanks from IW generally are ordinance based, so your XV-88's are relatively safe from ordinance fire. It's the Obliterators and the standard Chaos Marines with their portable lascannons that will pose your XV-88's the real threat.

I would suggest giving the XV-88 a shot against the IW instead of your hammerheads. At least if you get the first round of shooting, you can seriously lower his model count since they typically have such a low count anyways and you can insta-kill those Obliterators with railguns no problems (they're T4(5), so S8+ insta-kills Obliterators).

All the while--you can use Missile Pod crisis to dodge and shoot, but sometimes, indirect fire battle cannons make a mockery of our poor suits and where they hide if you play on the long boards.

You could try the whole shield generator + Shield Drones, but I'm afraid it will simply cost more than it's worth. They can easily break the drones with massed heavy bolter fire and then they're free to push a lascannon through the squad and remove railguns. So if you try it, normal drones may be more worth while for price without a shield generator to at least ignore the first few lascannon hits if they're not crafty enough to hit you with massed bolter fire.

Submuntions aren't a great help against an Iron Warrior player, due to small squads and min/maxing. Unless they're, very unlikely, balanced. But from the sounds of it, they're not so balanced--I would expect 2 single troops of 6 marines with a lascannon perhaps, maybe 3 if he's feeling guilty. The rest is sunk into obliterators, maybe a lord, and 4 heavy support selections and some expensive terminators.

What tanks does he run?
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Old 26 Apr 2005, 22:15   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Broadsides or Hammerheads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by freaky_beef
So the idea I had would be 3 squads of 3 Broadsides all with LT, so they can shoot at seperate targets if desired ..... I could even give them shield generators for a 4+ inv
Watch out, you only have one hardpoint available. If you want them all to be able to shoot at different targets, you can only give 2/3 of them Shield Generators.
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Old 27 Apr 2005, 03:13   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Broadsides or Hammerheads?

He dosent run tanks anymore (for obvios reasons thanks to rail guns) But he dosent really use Lascannons either. The only lascannons are the Oblitorators. So I would always be smart and put my Broadsides in some cover. He uses a fair ammount of Havocs. 3 Squads of 9 with Tank Huntin Missle Launchers. So, for a broadside, I would still get an armour save.
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Old 27 Apr 2005, 03:21   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Broadsides or Hammerheads?

Very Interesting. An IW player who fields Havocs with missile launchers and only a few Obliterators and tanks? Well, the XV-88 will live against missile launcher attacks, but if they fail a single armor save, you lose your suit to an insta-kill. Gundrones definitely could be a nice protective bullet catcher in that sense. Or you could go bare-bones and skim points with the XV-88's and just outgun him. Large havoc squads actually are wonderful at eating submunition rounds--but Ion cannons would serve you better against a heavy power armor force of Iron Warriors. Unfortunately, that many S9 missile launchers are going to seriously damage any vehicle you field, even on the glancing chart. I think I would try shocking him with pathfinders and seeker missiles and ion cannons followed by infiltrating Kroot fire and assaults. Afterall, he either shoots the kroot with his main battery weapons (which is what each units in his army is) or ignores them to shoot at more important targets. Either way, you get something good out of it (wasted powerful weaponry on Kroot, or your Kroot shoot or assault them next turn and make him regret ignoring them).

All in all, I think you can actually pull it off against them rather well. He doesn't have indirect fire--so your battlesuits are useful. You could play cat and mouse with a sit and shoot marine army like this all day.

Give the broadsides a try--but make sure to get rid of those lascannons quickly and be prepared to lose half of those XV-88's before the Obliterators are even gone.
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Old 27 Apr 2005, 07:27   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Broadsides or Hammerheads?

PFs with seekers are a great unit against the IW army you describe because on turn 1 you can hit one of his havoc units HARD (4 seekers will yield ~3 dead CSMs from that unit). 9 broadsides kitted out is a pretty big investment though. In general, parking them in hard cover works better (and is obviously cheaper) than buying a shield generator. Then you buy some drones to act as ablative wounds.
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Old 27 Apr 2005, 19:25   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Broadsides or Hammerheads?

Yeah, I thought it might be a sweet idea! They will definatly live alot longer than the 3 HH, and get more shots for sure!
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Old 27 Apr 2005, 19:59   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Broadsides or Hammerheads?

If you KNOW your facing an army like this, take 1 or 2 HH's and then the other slots as Crisis, 2 2 strong or 1 1 strong and 1 3 strong.

I have never faced a IW army before though, so I have no real experiance.

Good Luck
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Old 27 Apr 2005, 20:07   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Broadsides or Hammerheads?

Ummm, I think theres now way I would take a HH against this army. w/ 12 Missle Launchers that are tank hunting, ummmm, its almost garunteed not to do anything. They keep shooting it, and it keeps getting shaken or stunned. That sucks. Broadsides seem defiantly better to use against this army.
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Old 27 Apr 2005, 20:14   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Broadsides or Hammerheads?

I would agree. The problem is that I don't really like tweaking my lists to fight specific opponets. However, it appears that your friend has done just that so I guess turn around is fair play in this case.
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