[orkkrusher]

On page 20 of the Tau codex in a report filled says "the heresy of these aliens reach a zenith when one looks at their technology. Blah, Blah it displays none of the proper obeisances to the holy spirit of the machine god (Author Santiago 20)." The fact that none of their weapons or tech have anything to do with the machine spirit, do you think that this can add/detract from the main 3 creation theories? Does this support any of them? What is your personal opinion?

[Genmotty]

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. But I assume that the 'Machine Spirit' is more to do with artificial AI in the STC made equipment than anything else. When this AI goes 'your doing something wrong/something is wrong' the Admech go; "Hell it's angry with us again, ok what buttons and litany's do I push/recite to make the red flashing lights go away."

I think that the AdMech don't really know enough to actually remove these facets from the equipment and don't really understand what the purpose of it is. Therefore it's a wonder to them when the machine starts speaking back.

To your common Imperail, it's just a whole load of sirens and blinking lights which means nothing to them about the problem. Just that something is wrong, but to AdMech they 'know' what the warning is about and have enough knowledge to know if I do this, this and that. It goes away.

When they do this and it doesn't work anymore they think that the Machine Spirit is sulking or annoyed so it isn't going to function for that Techpriest, when in fact the techpriest just shut the system down or messed up the system settings with the incorrect procedure. Thus a higher level techpriest must be called in to liaise and carm the machine spirit (fix the problem by troubleshooting).

The Tau machines just don't fail or have the option to push buttons. Thus all troubleshooting is done by a built-in AI. So rather than relying on a Tau decision when things are wrong the Tau 'machine spirit' (AI) just fixes the problem for the machine.

This is the way I see it,
Genmotty

[Wargamer]

Sorry, Gen, but you've got this totally wrong.

Imperial Machines are alive. They have souls. This is not an A.I. system, because everything, from Titans to Lasguns, has a Machine Spirit.

Tau machines are unholy abominations. They are the equivalent of Daemons, in that they have no soul, and thus are "undead" Machines.

[DELPHEUS]

If daemons have no soul, how do they possess people?

What fluff is there saying that Imperial machines have souls? What's to say it's not just a really complex AI, a la Smart AI from the Halo universe? Any reference I've seen to Imperial machine-spirits points towards the Smart AI over an actual soul.

[Wargamer]

Originally Posted by Tak

If daemons have no soul, how do they possess people?

What fluff is there saying that Imperial machines have souls? What's to say it's not just a really complex AI, a la Smart AI from the Halo universe? Any reference I've seen to Imperial machine-spirits points towards the Smart AI over an actual soul.

Where you not listening?

All of 40K states all Machine have souls. Go look up the Imperial Primer for wonderful examples of how a Guardsmen must treat his Lasgun without upsetting the Machine Spirit. Lasguns have no AI system, but they do have a Machine Spirit.

[orkkrusher]

SO is that why in the Tau codex the guy who files the report on Tau weaponry was so disgusted.... So why don't Tau machines have machine spirits? Other then that is there any signifigance to it (aka I know the 'machine god' is c'tan)?

[icer190]

Originally Posted by orkkrusher

SO is that why in the Tau codex the guy who files the report on Tau weaponry was so disgusted.... So why don't Tau machines have machine spirits? Other then that is there any signifigance to it (aka I know the 'machine god' is c'tan)?

The Tau are Daemon Worshiping Heretics. That is all you need to know.

And that they need to be eradicated. Immediately...

I think a Templar Crusade will do Nicely

[DELPHEUS]

Originally Posted by Wargamer

Where you not listening?

All of 40K states all Machine have souls. Go look up the Imperial Primer for wonderful examples of how a Guardsmen must treat his Lasgun without upsetting the Machine Spirit. Lasguns have no AI system, but they do have a Machine Spirit.

I'm sure the Imperial Primer will say all Imperial machines have souls.

See, what I'm getting from this is that it's more like...technological animism (or something like that.) They think there's a spirit cause of the religious significance. Take something from 40k and drop it into now and I'm sure we'd prove there's no machine spirit.

Course, what I'm saying could very well be what GW wants us to see...

[orkkrusher]

Originally Posted by Icer

The Tau are Daemon Worshiping Heretics. That is all you need to know.

And that they need to be eradicated. Immediately...

I think a Templar Crusade will do Nicely

Yeah, but once the crudade starts all of a sudden another wave of nids (or ork wagh, or a Chaos crusade something that saves the Tau..... again) proving the Tau yet again to be the luckiest race in the Galaxy (wow somebody is looking out for them......

[enderwiggin]

Originally Posted by Tak

I'm sure the Imperial Primer will say all Imperial machines have souls.

See, what I'm getting from this is that it's more like...technological animism (or something like that.) They think there's a spirit cause of the religious significance. Take something from 40k and drop it into now and I'm sure we'd prove there's no machine spirit.

Course, what I'm saying could very well be what GW wants us to see...

Exactly. Necromundan hivers don't give a shit about most of their weapons and yet they'll work just fine with basic maintenance.