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Kroot. How good are they?
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Old 22 Apr 2005, 21:21   #1 (permalink)
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Default Kroot. How good are they?

I don't play Tau but by my experience kroot seem rather useless. You put them on the board. They get shot at. They die. They're basically cannon fodder but cannon fodder to such an extent that they're a waste of cannon fodder.

Feel free to contradict me by answering this question - what makes kroot worth using?
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Old 22 Apr 2005, 21:39   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kroot. How good are they?

You have to use them correctly or they're guaranteed to be cannon-fodder. That said, if people are really concentrating fire on them then they're probably serving the greater good by drawing fire away from the more important stuff.

Generally, using kroot involves burying them in cover or keeping them out of LoS. My favorite tactic on forest boards is to infiltrate them into the back edge of a big block of woods - the goal is to put >6" of woods between you and the enemy allowing the kroot to shoot but not be shot at. Of course that only works on boards involving big pieces of forest and requires relatively small kroot unit sizes (I typically use them in units of 10). By putting them into cover you also give yourself the advantage of striking first against anyone who tries to assault them.

As far as CC goes, kroot are better served as counter-charge troops than to initiate the CC unless you're sure of wiping out the target and they have a lower Init then the kroot (not too common). Kroot are one of those units that it's often better to be charged (assuming you're in cover) than charge.
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Old 22 Apr 2005, 21:47   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kroot. How good are they?

Do a search of Kroot tactics here or on other sites. Kroot are very good, but have to be taken in units of about 15 to be worthwhile foes.
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Old 23 Apr 2005, 01:33   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kroot. How good are they?

Tau-Killer:

The key to using Kroot, is to have a purpose for them. Knowing how they work and what they work against can be the selling point, or the reason you don't bother with them. If it's just because of the models or fluff of the Kroot, that's different, but rules-wise, they're in the codex for a very good reason. Think about it--why would you have Fire Warriors as the only troop selection, who have no way to take extra weaponry, such as anti-tank and all that, and be very skewed towards shooting. Then on top of it have the worst combat abilities as well and lack of war gear in general. The Kroot have a very good roll in the army where Fire Warriors simply aren't supposed to be.

I invite you to read this Guide on Using Kroot. It's more of a guide to how Kroot can be helpful rather than an absolute methodology because everyone's style is different, but it can help you to get an idea of what Kroot are good for, at least for some of us.
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Old 23 Apr 2005, 02:13   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kroot. How good are they?

yea, and kroot have proven, in my case, to be very good at combat, just the amount of attacks they get makes them worthwhile, with a squad of 20 you get 60 attacks for 140pts., and also you get 20 bolter shots in the shooting phase, so, as others have mentioned, if they are in cover they can outshoot a lot of troops. and with their infiltrate ability, they can either brake up shooting lines or stall the advance of an assualting army, and mainly, for all of this their just plain cheap!
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Old 23 Apr 2005, 06:11   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kroot. How good are they?

The problem I have with 20 is that I can never fit them inside a forest, or effectively hide them behind normal cover without spreading them too deep or packing them extremely tightly (i.e., pie-plate shaped).* With 10 just about any forest will do and I can use the >6" deep ones to my advantage.* With orks big mobs work b/c you generally move towards the enemy and you benefit from the mob size rule.* With kroot though I have a hard time on the typical 25-30% terrain board.

My kroot are the stars of my army - they don't necessarily kill a lot always but they serve a very useful purpose in directing the enemy, deterring certain approaches, and being a nuisance.*
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Old 23 Apr 2005, 06:58   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kroot. How good are they?

personally if theyre taking pings from the pie plate for being cramped it doesnt bother me much as its 4+ saves on those wounds :P, and wouldnt it be that if less than half were out of cover they'd all get a save ? or doesnt majority armour apply to coversaves?

that and nice big mobs of 20 need 5 deaths not 3 to take 25% checks and 10 not 5 for 50%, a little bit more durability IMO.
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Old 23 Apr 2005, 13:07   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kroot. How good are they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tau-killer
I don't play Tau but by my experience kroot seem rather useless.* You put them on the board.* They get shot at.* They die.* They're basically cannon fodder but cannon fodder to such an extent that they're a waste of cannon fodder.

Feel free to contradict me by answering this question - what makes kroot worth using?
Saying comments like"kroot are useless", "kroot are nothing more than cannon fodder" etc shows complete ignorance of playing the game. Relax, Im not flaming you. Attacking your viewpoint, yes. Attacking you personally, no.

OK. For me, kroot are amongst the most underrated troops in the game. Pkayed right, Kroot can be amongst the best troops in the game. Gasp! What! How can kroot be good?! they've got no armour!
OK. Look at your basic kroot. 7 points. 1 more than a guardsman. And for that seven points, you get 2 ws4 str4 attacks a turn, basic, 3 if you charge. With the new assault rules (everyone within 2" of someone fighting gets full attacks) your dealing with an obscene number of close combat attacks. Beyond that, kroot get to run around with what is basically a boltgun. 15 kroot rapid firing = 30 shots. It puts the hurting on anything. I've seen 11 kroot shoot up 5 marines a turn, i kid you not. Beyond that, look at their skills in woods. Dont have to take a difficult terrain test. A 4+ cover save. And most importantly, can see out 12" of terrain. Everything else (bar jungle fighters) can only see 6". So what does that mean for kroot? Place them 7" inside a wood. Nothing can see them. THey can see out and can dish out an obscene amount of firepower. If someone charges them, they strike first. And if someone is charging them, that means your enemy has deployed a good portion of his army to taking them out. LEave the kroot fend for themselves for 2 turns, while the rest of the tau obliterate the part of the army facing them. THen turn them to obliterate whats left of the enemy force taking on the kroot. And finally, kroot can infiltrate. Deploy 12"-18" away from your enemies (even marines-eg devestators) and rapid fire into them. 30 boltgun shots hurt even marines. they can Take a quarter from the word go, and the other guy must send a portion of his army to taking them out- same technique as above. And you can do all this for a model that costs 7 points?

My personal experience of kroot has been wonderful. Mt regular opponent used to hate them, saw them as useless (as you do) and yes, he turned 3 deep striking sentinel heavy flamers on them and cooked them. But then he turned to playing tau. And then my Kroot just continued to tear up his lines. Once my 70 point unit ate 120 points of his fire warriors. Another time a 105 point unit did this. ANd pissed off a hammerhead for the whole game. ANd once a 105 point unit tore up 250 points worth of his army, in a 1000 pointer game and were by turn 6 engaged in combat with more fire warriors. One more turn would have seen them eat another 40 or 50 points. So he started taking them. He took them to a tournament. Won it. His 180 points of kroot took out over 1500 points of enemy over 5 games. And thats NOTHING to sneeze at.

And yes, they have only ld7, and i3. Its fixable. Shapers, armour gives ld8, (space marine leadership) and taking kroot hounds gives them aan even bigger punch.

Final word: Kroot rock! Play them right, and they are amongst the best troops in the game. End of discussion.
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Old 23 Apr 2005, 15:50   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kroot. How good are they?

Just a comment on cover saves. Assume that the best you will see with your Kroot is 5+. I don't know about you guys, but jungle terrain is few and far between.

Now for the other point--majority in cover / out of cover is very important to remember. It doesn't matter if you cannot fit them all in cover, keep the majority in cover though to benefit them all.

And yes, Kroot are under-rated and under-used. They're in the codex for a reason And point per ability, they're one of the best Troops around. However, many people just don't like them since they're in a Tau army where their purpose seems almost contrary. But that's the point of them afterall.
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Old 23 Apr 2005, 17:35   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kroot. How good are they?

My problem with big units isn't "majority in cover" but rather that a large # of the unit cannot fire (b/c they're behind the forest rather than in it) or are subject to getting assaulted out in the open. I don't like packing the kroot in b/c even though they might be getting a cover save, having 6 or 8 of them taking one isn't much fun - even if half survive, you've got pinning and morale to worry about.

IMHO, kroot are actually quite underpriced. Their stat lines are almost identical to an ork skarboy at a cost of 4 points less. Of course the skarboyz have a better toughness, armor save, etc. but all of that IMO is balanced out by the fieldcraft and infiltrate (infiltrate as a skill usually costs you 3 points per model). If they had choppas they'd be simply awesome.
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