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Cheapening the victory
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Old 03 Apr 2008, 06:54   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Cheapening the victory

Lately, whenever I win people complain about my "OP Tau Skimmers", saying that they are horribly over-powered and cannot be killed. I find that it cheapens the victory, like my strategy meant nothing. Has anyone else ran into this kind of thing?
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Old 03 Apr 2008, 07:51   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Cheapening the victory

Probably all of us.

It`s just banter of people who lost - after all, Skimmers CAN be killed; and with Tau being the only race I can tink of that can NOT turn crew stunned into crew shaken results, our main advantage - speed and the protection that comes with it - are for nil. Add in the fact that all our battle tanks have only a single main weapon (Ion Cannon or Railgun, respectively), which means that a single weapon destroyed result makes hem rather useless, and you see that this is nothing but hollow banter from a beaten opponent.

Besides, they`re apparently never played Eldar Holofalcons - now, THESE birds are nigh unkillable!

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 03 Apr 2008, 07:57   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Cheapening the victory

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Originally Posted by CmdrBonesaw

Besides, they`re apparently never played Eldar Holofalcons - now, THESE birds are nigh unkillable!
You're right, they haven't. I normally go against Necrons, Blood Angels, Swarm Nids, and Grey Knights. I keep asking to switch armies and see how we fare, but no one is willing to do it.
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Old 03 Apr 2008, 08:28   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Cheapening the victory

lol i get it all the time being an eldar player. Just bring up their landraiders, and terminators, monoliths, we'll be back, the shrouding, and if they still have a problem with it, make a list without and beat them. And how many points do you pay for an unkillable vehicle. a falcon is about 195, so makes up for it. Your up against clsoe to all 3+ saves and toughness 4, cept for the swarm, but they have nid after nid after nid after nid etc.
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Old 03 Apr 2008, 08:32   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cheapening the victory

The complaint lies not in the endurance of the vehicle, but its location; Tau can create indirect-fire armies that are seriously not fun to play against, where everything hides behind terrain, uses SMS, or the Move-shoot-Move tricks to ensure there'll be no return fire.

To prove a point of how un-fun this is, I once took on a Tau player with a Krieg army. He killed about 120 points max, whilst I dropped 20+ Templates on him a turn. All indirect. I killed every last model on the board (1,500pts). He hated the game, and hated the army.

If you want people to stop bitching about your army, stop hiding it behind Area Terrain and fight your opponent. I have never had anyone complain about how I use Tau; by the time I start resorting to "cowardly" tactics, it's usually Turn 5 and I'm trying to hold off 400pts of Striking Scorpions from shifting three Crisis Suits off the objective.


Anyway, I don't use Falcons, so I can happily slag the Tau skimmers with impunity; all my skimmers are AV10, bar the Ravagers, so even Bolters will bring them down, Holofields or no.
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Old 03 Apr 2008, 08:33   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Cheapening the victory

Its a case of "Hmm I lost, what can I do to make it look impossible for me to win."

You play against Necrons, complain about the "We'll be back" rule and if he uses a Monolith...
Blood angels, well their Space Marines I'm sure you'll think of something :P
'Nids, complain about the synapse, even the smallest creatures can't fall back off the field as long as there is alot of synapse around, and for cheap as chips warriors thats not so hard to do.
Grey Knights, S-6 and fearless on their troops choice? Lets not forget all those special rules like the shrouding that make it that little bit harder to kill them.

You see, there are things about every army that people complain about, not just Tau. So don't let it put you off.
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Old 03 Apr 2008, 08:38   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cheapening the victory

Some of your examples are a little flawed; many armies have genuine flaws in them that are worthy of complaint.

Necrons; WBB is not a problem. Phalanx WBB is - it is far too good.
Blood Angels; I don't think I've heard any complaints about the Blood Angels yet. They have come a long way since 3rd.
'Nids... well, I think some of us are just getting sick of every army being Fearless. Plus that rediculous "Immune to Instant Death" rule Synapse gives. Wow, so because someone really wants you to keep fighting, you can do so even when a Battle Cannon just splattered your bodyparts over a half-mile radius. That is impressive! :
Grey Knights... nope, never heard any complaints about the Grey Knights. Psycannons, yes, Incinerators, yes, GK armies with Guard, yes, but not the GKs themselves. Why? Because they are weak. A Pure GK army is so bloody hard to use nobody ever does.

There are a lot of things people complain about, but it's why they complain that matters. It is one thing to complain how someone never failed their Armour Saves on the Terminator squad that ate up half your army, it is another to say that Terminators are Broken because of it.
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Old 03 Apr 2008, 09:13   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Cheapening the victory

The Grey Knight player doesn't call cheese on me. It is normally the Necron player complaining about my skimmers, the Nid player complaining about how easily I take out his synapse, and, the most most frequent, the Blood Angels player who complains about skimmers moving fast. Granted, he has enough anti-tank in his army to not really screw me over: Melta-bombs and a melta-gun in every squad, two attack bikes with multi-melta's, and a predator with twin-linked lascannons. Unfortunately, he always rolls ones for them.

Also, I hate it when people complain about my army, so I try not to complain about theirs. I just think of ways to counter their advantages.
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Old 03 Apr 2008, 09:27   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cheapening the victory

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Originally Posted by theshoe3
The Grey Knight player doesn't call cheese on me. It is normally the Necron player complaining about my skimmers, the Nid player complaining about how easily I take out his synapse, and, the most most frequent, the Blood Angels player who complains about skimmers moving fast. Granted, he has enough anti-tank in his army to not really screw me over: Melta-bombs and a melta-gun in every squad, two attack bikes with multi-melta's, and a predator with twin-linked lascannons. Unfortunately, he always rolls ones for them.
Okay, run-down;

The Necron Player has no right to cry cheeze; Necrons are the beardiest force around with all their rule-breaking units. Being called Cheezy by a Necron player is like being called a Terrorist by Osama Bin Ladin.

The Nid Player has a very limited right to cry cheeze; it depends entirely on how his Synapse is spread out.

The Blood Angels player has every right to cry cheeze; Skimmers are arseholes to kill with anti-tank guns. It is mind-bogglingly stupid that Skimmers are better killed with anti-horde weapons than anti-tank guns, and when the Skimmer in question has AV 13 on the front it just gets worse. He probably thinks the Skimmer rules as a whole are broken, and who can blame him? His army's anti-tank capability is utterly nerfed by Skimmer rules.

Quote:
Also, I hate it when people complain about my army, so I try not to complain about theirs. I just think of ways to counter their advantages.
That mindset is generally a good one to have, but given the Tau's ability to play Annoying Armies, I become concerned when a Tau player voices it. "Counter" in the mouth of Tau becomes a dirty word.
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Old 03 Apr 2008, 09:35   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cheapening the victory

Just means you have reached the next level of Tau playing. People always moan about them, as they are required to rethink their tactics, something people appear loathe to do.

You can't fight tau like you would a normal army - there is no mutual charge across the table, then fight CC in the middle. You need to have your army fight as an army to beat them - trying to use a great unit on its own will get them slaughtered.

I stopped playing my Tau for a while, as I was getting the moans, and I wasn't hiding behind terrain and fighting indirect, and people still complained.

Part of it is the durability of skimmers, but people just need to rethink how they attack them. Instead of 1 shot wonder weapons, they need to use MS/HRoF weapons, like the autocannon. If you can only glance a tank anyway, high strength weapons become pointless. You want to get as many glances as you can on it, as that will result in death.

Edit: The necron player is crying cheese? His entire army can glance your skimmers regardless, Crons are one of the hardest armies for Tau to face!
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