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A tad of bad luck with my HH?
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Old 18 Apr 2005, 04:40   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default A tad of bad luck with my HH?

Hammerhead has heavy 1 railgun shot. You roll 1D6 for 3+ to hit. Whoopie it hits(if it ever!). STR 10 it should go through most any vehicle right? I spent the day shooting at a Dreadnought and a Falcon Grav tank. After all the shooting(10 shots) I only managed to blow up 1 weapon on the dreadnought.

Do most of you veteran players use marker lights to paint targets? I can't ever seem to hit anything with my HH. If it does, it doesn't like to take out vehicles! All I have to do is roll 3+ to hit and hurt vehicles with Armor 13.
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Old 18 Apr 2005, 11:22   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: A tad of bad luck with my HH?

Crossfc:

This is sadly a fact of life. Many times, we take our greatest warriors and best units, with the best stats possible and roll 1's all day making a complete flop of the game. They were all drunk--what can you say? Maybe he felt pity and let some higher realization take hold of his abilities, so he felt nothing would be solved by violence and instead was shooting bright lights at stars in the sky instead of the enemy vehicles because of the pretty effects it made putting a straight line towards the heavens of a celestial body...

Ok.. well, you get the point. We all throw bad dice every now and then. It's just a bad day mate, don't sweat it.

This is one of those cases, where averages and all those fun equations that say that you should have a potentially killer tank and killer gun that simply falls so short of the stick that it wasn't even comparable to the success rate of a little Kroot warrior who caught a blast template like a pro. The dice simply were not with you that day, my friend.

Better luck next time!

And just for extra relief, I have friends who throw dice away and buy new ones due to reoccurring days of that.... it's quite amusing! Don't let it get you down.

Now - as for your question, no I do not use Markerlights for my tanks. The reason for me, is because why should I take a very expensive unit simply to increase my odds of a 3+ and make it into a 2+ just for a vehicle? The markerlight gives no special benefits, such as cover denial, to vehicles, so I find markerlights are better used with multiple shot or "A.S.A.P. Incredibly Important Target" moments. For example, I would use markerlights to guide 3 broadsides to fire into that Dreadnought perhaps, but not a single Railgun from a Hammerhead who already has a very good chance of hitting and damaging.

The reason why? Sure, we can hit the thing on a 2+... but damaging it and rolling the damage chart are very different from that 2+ hit. Now we need another dice roll to see what kind of damage we cause and then yet another dice roll to see what damage does occur. You could guide a Railgun into a Landraider, on a 2+ and totally penetrate it on a 4+, those are great odds afterall, and then roll a stinking 1 or 2 for damage. Wasted shot.

How do we take care of this? Throw more shots at it, not higher quality ones. No matter how much you guide shots around with pathfinders, it will never compare to just doubling your amount of guns. If a single Railgun isn't doing it for you--try three.

And just for reference, next time, use Missile Pods to beat down a Dreadnought if you have them available, multiple high strength shots are much better against those light armored walking beasts and Flacons. Railguns just don't work so well on Skimmers. 6 Missile Pod shots on the other hand, for the same price, will trash them quite nicely!
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Old 18 Apr 2005, 12:32   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: A tad of bad luck with my HH?

I once shot at a defiler in 6 rounds with my Broadside, and I think I did a glancing hit/stunned, wich had no effect since it had some kind of uppgrade... I think it had front armour 13...
But thena single gun is really not somthing do relay on...
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Old 18 Apr 2005, 12:50   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: A tad of bad luck with my HH?

Try markerlighting Broadsides its basically a guarranted railgun hit, or two or three ;D Rolling on the damage chart with only one die is to unpredictable IMO
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Old 18 Apr 2005, 13:23   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: A tad of bad luck with my HH?

With 3 2+ shots on a vehicle with a reroll you should ALWAYS mark your targets for the Broadsides. It makes it so much nicer when you roll a 6 and take out the Marines AND a few termies near the vehicle.
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Old 18 Apr 2005, 16:29   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: A tad of bad luck with my HH?

One day i was playing my friends SM army and he had 3 dreads and some falcons and i killed em all with double 6's O0
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Old 18 Apr 2005, 17:25   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: A tad of bad luck with my HH?

Yeah, HH do give some bad luck to some players, but markerlighting for the HH is only for dire situations, such as when you really need to get rid of a tank/beastie...
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Old 18 Apr 2005, 17:44   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: A tad of bad luck with my HH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossfc
Hammerhead has heavy 1 railgun shot. You roll 1D6 for 3+ to hit. Whoopie it hits(if it ever!). STR 10 it should go through most any vehicle right? I spent the day shooting at a Dreadnought and a Falcon Grav tank. After all the shooting(10 shots) I only managed to blow up 1 weapon on the dreadnought.

Do most of you veteran players use marker lights to paint targets? I can't ever seem to hit anything with my HH. If it does, it doesn't like to take out vehicles! All I have to do is roll 3+ to hit and hurt vehicles with Armor 13.
Yes sir, everything you say is true. If you look at it mathematically, you're spending at least 150 points for a tank Railgun that has the capability to move (another 10 points) and fire, or lay down the template. Those options are just fine and dandy, but when you look at it from the stats angle you're paying double the price of a broadside suit, that potentially is more accurate and it's railgun it's more "valuable". In point based strategy games, a point increase like that should guarantee at least a small increase in accuracy. It isn't though, so the railgun on the Hammerhead is a confused weapon in my mind. It's great to have and the template blast is super cool, but broadsides out-perform railheads in just about every aspect. Hell, it's even easier to keep infantry alive as opposed to 13 armor tanks even when fast moving.


That being said, as of last week I will not fire a tank shot without a markerlight guiding it. A 3 + is pretty good odds, but on a 150 point figure a 33% chance to fail your shot is pretty huge, seeing as how a 15 point marine with a lascannon is almost as effective and just as accurate. Your 150 point cannon hurts tempo wise when you miss, as you pretty much said.

And as Mal said, do NOT fire rail guns at eldar vehicles unless they do not have the various upgrades they always have. A Railgun into a dreadnaught isn't a bad idea though, but if you have missile pods on hand they are the smarter weapon to fire. The Tau as it stands, have the highest quality anti tank weapon in the game - and it's well worth your while to guide it via markerlight. What it does after it slams into the tank we cannot control, however when you have something like this that you cannot afford to fire in volume due to the price tag on the railgun you should do everything in your power to maximize it's chances to hit.



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Old 18 Apr 2005, 17:49   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: A tad of bad luck with my HH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by slai
I once shot at a defiler in 6 rounds with my Broadside, and I think I did a glancing hit/stunned, wich had no effect since it had some kind of uppgrade... I think it had front armour 13...
But thena single gun is really not somthing do relay on...
Yeah, chaos vehicles can upgrade with "Daemonic Possession" and they ignore crewshaken/stunned effects. I think fluff wise it's supposed to blur the line between vehicles and monsters. They also can get a 13 front armor with mutated hull, but statistically your gun should have raped the thing.

With a broadside, you have a 75% chance to hit anything. Then, because your shots are AP1 you have a 67% chance to penetrate the defiler. Those are pretty good odds, but that is what odds are. They are only averages over long runs of attempts. At any given point you could start rolling 1's and 2's and come up with what happened to you.


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Old 18 Apr 2005, 19:31   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: A tad of bad luck with my HH?

I usually use MLs for Railguns as a last resort because the 3+ is usually enough to hit. MLs cause whatever shot that they direct to hit on 2+ but they also cause that shot to ignore cover saves, not Hull Down due to terrrain, so that's not a big help. I would be more likely to use a ML to direct an Ion Cannon because then all 3 shots hit on 2+, and I fairly often use a ML to direct SMS off my HH so that all 4 shots are liable to hit (just to make the 'doesn't need LOS' pay off taht much more).

The good news, of course is that you can roll any MLs and then decide where they go later in the Shooting Phase - you don't have to assign a ML to activate a weapon before you roll for the ML hit.
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