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Any ideas on how to kill wraithlords?
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Old 17 Apr 2005, 13:03   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Any ideas on how to kill wraithlords?

Fought against a Eldar army, and the Wraithlord reaped too many of my FW's.
Fired about 100 shots on it, which resulted in 3 saves and no wounds.
The main force of my army war tangles up in fighting some eldar tanks and troops.
How do I take down the wraithlord?...help :-\
(I won in the end though :P)
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Old 17 Apr 2005, 13:11   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Any ideas on how to kill wraithlords?

having no invunerable save hitting the wraithlords with railguns are going to be the ultimate way of giving it a quick death. Missile pods and fusion toting crisis suits aren't a bad way to go either. However I would use your railguns elsewhere (preferably submunitioning aspect warriros and gaurdians) and instead just run away from the wraithlord.

Against a tau army you shouldnt let a wraithlord get into cc with you, and you can portect your battlesuits from being starcannoned by moving in the assult phase. You should evacuate fire warriors to safety using a devilfish instead of standing and firing. Concnetrate on other things and then the wraithlord will have no support and will be easy prey as long as you can keep out of its way. With some good tactics and a fast army (which most tau armies are) this should be easily achievable!

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Old 17 Apr 2005, 14:14   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Any ideas on how to kill wraithlords?

[size=14pt]By Inquisitorial Mandate! Field Report of Tau Cadre vs. an Eldar Wraithlord; File MLVX102300297[/size]
[size=7pt]Brought to you by your friendly neighborhood Inquisitor, MalVeauX[/size]
Killing a Wraithlord with Tau:

First off, one should know that unless a Wraithlord is right next to you and near close combat range, he should not necessarily be the priority target for most of your firepower. They can only remove a few models at a time and you can remove a lot more of theirs with your guns. Wraithlords are Fire Magnets and as such absorb firepower very easily -- unless the game situation really requires you to ace the Wraith, remember that he can be ignored and "dealt" with later (for example, destroy the dark reapers that are in plain sight instead of shooting at a Wraithlord). This is very situational, so in your games it may be very important to focus on the Wraithlord, and that's ok - but otherwise, remember he's not always your #1 target.

Crisis Suits:
  • We have 3 weapons that are both common and available on the Crisis suit for destroying a wraithlord at decent range and at close range. Those being the Plasma Rifle, the Missile Pod and the Fusion Blaster. I'll do a brief summary of each weapon and how you should fair with it against the T8 opponent. Before that though, it is a good idea to assume that you will at least have 3 Crisis suits to do this, otherwise, the damage would be spanned across too many turns and by then you've taken too many casualties.
    • Plasma Rifle: Our odds with the Rifles are not good, but at least we can deny the armor save. At the 24 inch range, 3 plasma rifles will hit roughly half (1/2) the time and wound only 1/6th of the time, meaning 3 shots is going to make for a very, very long game against that T8. At the 12 inch range, our plasma will have 6 shots which hit half the time and we'll wound him 1/6th of the time still, but if you can manage the maximum of 6 hits, you'll at least have a chance of scoring a wound. That is a perfect moment however, which does not exist except on rare occasions such as "big fish stories." My advise here is to compensate these Plasma shots with something else! You may only score a single wound with luck here (wound on a 6+), so if you can manage the same odds from 2 other squads, you'll have your 3 wounds and one dead wraithlord on your hands.

      Missile Pod: Missile Pods have much better odds, better range and more shots for us to use--however, he has an armor save this time, so a lot of shots will be negated. At 36 inches, we have 6 total shots, though we only hit half the time still and we only wound 1/5th of the time. In a perfect situation, with twinlinked missile pods perhaps, if you were to hit 6 times, you would on average wound twice. The Wraithlord's 3+ armor save is then going to negate those shots 2/3rds of the time, so even if we wound twice, odds are, he'll pass both or perhaps fail a single armor save. We still need 2 other squads to increase our odds, but at least we're wounding on a 5+ now.

      Fusion Blaster: The fusion blaster is one of the better weapons for destroying Wraithlords, however, it is also the most dangerous. The reason for this is that it's such close range, it's a single shot and you only hit half the time. You can only have 3 fusion blasters in a squad of Crisis, and even if they're twin-linked, we're not going to hit all those hits every time, and even then, we're still only going to wound 1/2 of the time on a 4+. That means, even if we hit 2 out of 3 times, we're only going to wound 1/2 of the time, so we're still only looking at a single wound. At least it denies the armor save. So in that case, we still want to supplement with more squads or more weapons to achieve perhaps 1 or 2 more wounds which will be necessary.

    So keeping these weapons in mind, however you combine them, you can think to yourself how you will be able to cause damage and how often will you deny armor saves on an average basis with normal, non-specific configurations (such as FireKnife or Deathrain, or Sunforge for example). If your Crisis suits don't have a good chance, don't worry about it, just focus on them helping other squads to achieve that kill and remember not to leave the task to them alone!

Stealth Suits:
  • Stealth Suits are in many lists, so it's good to include them in our examples. Luckily, almost every Tau weapon can wound a Wraithlord, even though the odds aren't incredible, however, the more dice we're rolling, the often those odds will happen and we can cause wounds. Stealthsuit's burstcannons in a maximum squad of 6, will deliver 18 shots to a Wraithlord, however, only hitting half of them and only wounding 1/6th of them. That makes for 2 wounds roughly on average, of which the Wraithlord still has a 3+ armor save, to negate 2/3rds of those wounds, causing a single wound if we're lucky. If the burstcannons were guided, our odds go up very slightly, so it's not a good idea to devote two squads in that manner. In otherwords, we need 2 more squads to help cause two more wounds more accurately.

Pathfinders:
  • Our Pathfinders are actually sort of an underdog in the sense that they can dispatch with a Wraithlord fairly easily with good accuracy. The problem is, our Pathfinders themselves are in danger as well due to opposing Eldar firepower at similar ranges of 36 inches. However, our Pathfinders markerlights can guide on average, 4 seeker missiles a turn, which can indeed wound a Wraithlord 1/2 of the time and deny him the armor save from a much safer distance of 36 inches, compared to the normal 12 of a Fusion Blaster. In that case, it may be worthwhile considering a few seeker missiles on your tanks here and there. 8 Pathfinders with two gundrones to increase their squadsize, can deliver 4 markerlights on average. If this is increased by other squads, such as Firewarriors or Auxiliaries, we could get up to 6 Markerlights, which is what we need to kill a Wraithlord on average in a single turn, with 6 seeker missiles. This is an expensive option--but it works surprisingly! However, it's easier to combine the firepower with another squad for a team effort. In our case, we can easily expect to hit 4 seeker missiles from the Pathfinder team against the Wraithlord. Half (1/2) of them will wound and deny the armor save, and will leave him with a single wound left. This is where a Crisis squad will be able to deliver their single wound and cause the downfall of the Giant (missile pods would do it perhaps, plasma would do it too if you're lucky) or even some Stealthsuits could help deliver the final wound. Whatever you use, it only needs to really give you a single extra wound on top of what your Pathfinders can do. Not bad odds for a Fast Attack that is shunned--they have their places afterall (albeit very specific such as this).

    Just a note, I have left out Railrifles because they are in the same category as plasma rifles, but have longer range. I would not consider them against a Wraithlord (or Eldar for that matter) but feel free to give them a shot if you enjoy them! 4 Seeker Missiles simply work better than 3 Railrifles and cost similar.

Fire Warriors:
  • Fire Warriors can wound Wraithlords too with their impressive S5 basic weaponry. Odds are though, not that great. With 12 firewarriors at long range, we can deliver 6 hits and achieve a single wound with 1/6th odds as normal. That is then saved 2/3rds of the time. So it's not a good idea to use 36 Fire Warriors to cause 3 single wounds from 30 inch range. At 12 inch range, we double our odds, but it's still no better than 2 wounds with 2/3rds odds of pulling it off. That is not a bad thing though because if they're simply needed for the last wound, they're a good possibility! Definitely consider another squad (preferably not Fire Warriors) to deliver that team effort.

Broadsides:
  • XV-88's can apply a single wound to a Wraithlord easily. Generally a Railgun is better used elseware, but in this case, the XV-88 railguns do not have submunition blasts--this makes them prime candidates for busting a Wraithlord, one wound at a time with good chances to hit and excellent chances to wound (5/6th of the time!). A single XV-88 combined with another squad could bring about the downfall of the Wraithlord. Pathfinders with seeker missiles and a single XV-88 could erase that Wraithlord for example. The downside is that the XV-88 is also in danger due to similar ranges of Eldar weaponry that can easily destroy our XV-88 as well, luckily he's cheaper than the Wraithlord!

Hammerheads:
  • Hammerheads bring us two weapons to consider, the Railgun and the Ion Cannon. The Railgun is obvious, as most people already have it, but the Ion Cannon is there sometimes as well, so let's consider both weapons and how they could or should be used and at what odds against a Wraithlord.
    • Railgun: The railguns are great weapons for wounding a Wraithlord with good odds, however, the Submunition blast is too valuable to waste, as destroying other squads is highly valuable with a large blast template. In that case, the Railgun should only really be considered for the Wraithlord in a dire situation where the last wound is needed A.S.A.P. (such as combat range). Generally though there are much more valuable targets for a submunition railgun to fire upon.

      Ion Cannon: The Ion Cannon is in the same category as the missile pod, in that it will wound on a 5+, but it will deny the armor save on the other hand! So in our case, we will hit 2/3rds of the time, and wound only 1/3rd of the time. Those aren't great odds, but if combined with other units, it's a good possibility. Two Ion Cannons would very well increase the odds, but still not generally cause enough damage at one time to accomplish our goal.

    With those weapons in mind, I would advise your Hammerheads to ignore the Wraithlord unless we're looking at the most important times, such as combat range, to dedicate important firepower to the Wraithlord. Other squads are actually better at dealing with the T8 monster in this case, unless you're using the Ion Cannon in which case it's a good choice for firing at the Wraithlord in combination with another squad (such as Pathfinders).
[hr]

Conclusion:

From what I've listed here, there are other units missing, but I feel they are not adequate for the job of delivering enough punch to take down a Wraithlord or even bother it in the slightest (such as Gundrones). The weapons are similar, so you can use your imagination in those cases.

I would personally recommend you attempt Pathfinders, though it seems crazy, as they seem to have a really good chance of delivering the goods when combined with a single other unit (no matter what the unit is, though preferably something that will guarantee the wound, such as an XV-88 or some Plasma or Fusion). These pathfinders also get that pre-game move and a first-turn dead Wraithlord is very possible in this manner.

Otherwise, remember to use about 3 or 4 squads combined to attempt to take down a Wraithlord. I still would call your attention that you may be dedicating over 800 points of your army to take down a single 125~150 point Wraithlord - so it may be worth while considering new units that you may never have tried before. Seeker Missiles and a railgun can do the job the easiest and most reliable at the longest range in our case.

Good luck to you on your Wraithlord hunts, kind sir!

[size=7pt]Termination of Transmission.[/size]
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Old 17 Apr 2005, 14:39   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Any ideas on how to kill wraithlords?

That was so good MalVeauX, that I think, as resident Eldar Mod, I'll have to give you -1 Karma.
*Looks blankly*
Not that I can here.
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Old 17 Apr 2005, 16:09   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Any ideas on how to kill wraithlords?

AGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGH, HORRIBLE POST. DELETE. DELETE. DELETE.

PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEASE

Phew...I have now regained my grip on sanity.
I'd have to say that although has Malveaux has done a wonderful experience analysing everything - I've always found from my personal experience that broadsides are excellent units for taking down wraithlords - due to the fact that they can only fire one shot anywayand they will hit the wraithlord 35/36 of the time and then go on to wound (and take off a wound) 5/6 of the time.

That roughly means that 81% of the railgun shots fired from a broadside will take a wound off a wraithlord.
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Old 17 Apr 2005, 20:53   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Any ideas on how to kill wraithlords?

Mal probably has it down (you expect me to read that? ) but I feel I have to add, "if it doesnt have a Bright Lance, Ignore it!" it cant kill your tanks and you can run away from it ^-^, fly off and dissassemble the rest of his army ;D, then come back and have a crack at the Wraithlord, its an amazing fire sink, Eldar players often use it to say "See me!, shoot me!" because of insane amount of fire it can divert from the Pansy flimsy part of the eldar army ^-^.
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Old 17 Apr 2005, 22:45   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Any ideas on how to kill wraithlords?

Dizzy - well you could have read the first paragraph and found that entire post you just wrote.

However, more specifically yes, only the Brightlance version of Wraithlords are truly dangerous to the Tau due to insta-killing of various important units and worse, vehicles.
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Old 18 Apr 2005, 00:26   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Any ideas on how to kill wraithlords?

Yes, a BL on a Wraithlord is bad, but just imagine two WL's in a 750 pt game.

That hurts.

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Old 18 Apr 2005, 02:22   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Any ideas on how to kill wraithlords?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalVeauX
well you could have read the first paragraph and found that entire post you just wrote.
which is why Succinctity is a virtue
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Old 18 Apr 2005, 13:38   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Any ideas on how to kill wraithlords?

Unfortunately Tau do not have the `Bucket O Grots' option for tying up a WL in assualt for four/five turns. Kroot could be used strickly as a tie up. But with Strength 4 against Toughness 8, they ain't going anywhere. It would tie up 160 points+ of your own Tau army, however. Against a single Wraithlord, the Kroot option may work as a last desparate attempt. If your opponent has two, all you can do is shoot them and hope the Dice Gods favor you.

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