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Front-Loading vs End-Loading
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Old 14 Apr 2005, 23:17   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Front-Loading vs End-Loading

A more advanced topic... hopefully some will find it helpful.

Thoughts? Comments?


http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/...j/loading.html
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Old 14 Apr 2005, 23:20   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Front-Loading vs End-Loading

I think these concepts are more common sense than anything, and since averages only really apply over a very long run - I think the article relies too much on numbers.

I don't think it's a horrible article, just certainly not really an advanced topic. If it's aimed at beginners who don't analyze strategy games on the level of probability then it's good.

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Old 14 Apr 2005, 23:25   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Front-Loading vs End-Loading

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowDeth
averages only really apply over a very run
I'm sorry, I don't think I understand you. What does that mean?

I actually think this article is rather light on numbers... the only time I busted out the math was to show one way that the effectiveness of Decoy Launchers could be assessed. Would you care to expand on your comment a bit more? How else would you recommend the concepts be presented?

Thanks for reading!
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"i like to think of playing against my list as being like punching jelly. you put all your effort in but it just moves out of the way and you cause no damage. then your arm is covered in jelly. and the chicks come out and start wrestling in the jelly, and i drink a beer with stone cold steve austin, and we watch the chicks jelly wrestling, and then the slap-bass funk starts wakka chakka wakka wakka woh" -- Spooky, describing Mech Tau

"You can of course make a list that attempts to work via fragility and easy VP donation and Pathfinders fit into that just fine." -- kai
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Old 14 Apr 2005, 23:58   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Front-Loading vs End-Loading

Well I read it and it really dosent help me any. I already know as to what extent to upgrade.

But It was still good and i'm sure it will help many people.

Howver I think that you should list tactics for each upgrades uses. That would give a full detail of how and when to use each upgrade
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Old 15 Apr 2005, 01:29   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Front-Loading vs End-Loading

AS, those tactics are listed in each unit's respecitve page. For example, if you go to the Heavy Support page, you'll find advice on Hammerhead upgrades.
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"i like to think of playing against my list as being like punching jelly. you put all your effort in but it just moves out of the way and you cause no damage. then your arm is covered in jelly. and the chicks come out and start wrestling in the jelly, and i drink a beer with stone cold steve austin, and we watch the chicks jelly wrestling, and then the slap-bass funk starts wakka chakka wakka wakka woh" -- Spooky, describing Mech Tau

"You can of course make a list that attempts to work via fragility and easy VP donation and Pathfinders fit into that just fine." -- kai
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Old 15 Apr 2005, 02:48   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Front-Loading vs End-Loading

Tonka:

I like your style on introducing front/end-loading and what it means in terms of the game. I think it was to the point, short enough yet packed enough to get a good amount of information across to people who are trying to think of taking a harder defense or using a stronger offense as a good defense. Everything looks in order to me from those points. There are a few points where you made reference to in-game situations where these concepts come into play, and I think it would be really interesting to do a few of them per race (since there really aren't that many). It's amazing how a simple example sometimes carries the idea across faster for some people when they're really stuck on a specific enemy.

One other bit is in this sentence:
Quote:
[sup]"...Because it will save our vehicle 1 out of 9 times and costs 5 points, it is worth taking on vehicles which cost over..."[/sup]
I added the bold word because it was missing to make it a complete sentence. I know it's picking, but take it as a compliment as it's the only thing I could find that was not A+

Very nice - I would like to see more and how this is applied with the various Tau units against the other races.

-Mal
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Old 15 Apr 2005, 02:53   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Front-Loading vs End-Loading

I found it a helpful article. *These are things I had considered before, but they were presented well and relate to many of the debates we have over army selection. *The mechanized Tau army is a delicate balance between front-loading and end-loading. *I consider mounting Fire Warriors a form of end-loading. *We sacrifice the points for Devilfish that could be spent on more firepower, but the benefits we reap are subtle and often outweigh the costs. *So it is with decoy launchers on all skimmers. *I tend to favor front-loading where I can, avoiding bonding and photon grenades. *I also rarely spend points on Shield Generators or Drone Controllers, preferring to keep out of sight and use those points on more troops.

Thanks for taking the time to write it! *
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Old 15 Apr 2005, 04:26   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Front-Loading vs End-Loading

very good rescource for new players, a common concept for more experienced players but if its not written down the newbies have to learn it the hard way

good job ^-^
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Old 15 Apr 2005, 07:45   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Front-Loading vs End-Loading

I think Dizzy hit the nail on the head - the article is very useful but to anyone who's played tau for a bit and/or read most forums it comes across as "no-duh" kind of information. The most useful feedback you'll get is probably from new folks.

I don't think the math is excessive (in fact, there's not enough of it for my tastes ). The comment about averages being over the long run is accurate but not necessarily pertinent - in a game based on a random roll you really only have 3 choices on which to base your decisions on whether something is worth it or not:
1) Voodoo - sacrifice a chicken or read some tea leaves
2) Fluff - to hell with winning, I just want an army that looks cool!
3) Averages - calculate how things will work out in the long run and base your decisions on those knowing that they won't necessarily predict your results in the next game.

I haven't included experience in the choices because it takes time (we need to play many games to acquire it) and it largely depends on your own abilities (if you're a crummy tactician it's tough to win games even with a perfect army). So, while experience plays a vital role it can't really be of much use in assessing the general worth of a particular upgrade/unit - instead it interacts with your method to determine the ultimate outcome.
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Old 15 Apr 2005, 16:03   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Front-Loading vs End-Loading

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waldo_Pepper
I think Dizzy hit the nail on the head - the article is very useful but to anyone who's played tau for a bit and/or read most forums it comes across as "no-duh" kind of information.* The most useful feedback you'll get is probably from new folks.
Well then, I suppose I accomplished my objective! The vast majority of The Guide to Mech Tau is in that vein, so knowing this article follows suit is a good thing.
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"i like to think of playing against my list as being like punching jelly. you put all your effort in but it just moves out of the way and you cause no damage. then your arm is covered in jelly. and the chicks come out and start wrestling in the jelly, and i drink a beer with stone cold steve austin, and we watch the chicks jelly wrestling, and then the slap-bass funk starts wakka chakka wakka wakka woh" -- Spooky, describing Mech Tau

"You can of course make a list that attempts to work via fragility and easy VP donation and Pathfinders fit into that just fine." -- kai
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