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New player needs help vs Black Templars
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Old 11 Feb 2008, 23:42   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Default New player needs help vs Black Templars

Greetings all!

I am in a bit of a slump, and have decided to appeal to the Tau community for help/advice. I have played several games against a friend of mine who plays Black Templars. I have played quite a few games and have yet to come out on top. So let me begin first by giving an overview of my opponent's army.

Black Templars: In a 2000 pt game (which is normal for us) my friend generally fields two 15 or 20-man crusader squads (he rarely gives them a transport) and a 10-man sword brethren squad. All of them have power weapons and are almost always led by an Emperors Champion. This squad is almost always given transport, consisting of either a rhino or land raider crusader. He may also, from time to time, throw in a 10 man assault squad. Heavy support is often a predator annihilator, and either another land raider of some variant or a vindicator.

Tau: In a 2000 point game I am playing with nearly everything I own, but for the purpose of this post I'll let you all know what I have. I have six 10-man fire warrior squads, for crisis battle suits, one squad of three broadsides, a devil fish, a hammer head, a skyray, a 6-man team of stealth suits, a pathfinder squad with railrifles and 17 kroot carnivores.

The results: The usual theme comes about this way. I concentrate all heavy fire on his armor, while his troops slowly foot slog their way up to my fire warriors. At range 30", I can usually down a squad before he's assaulted me. The reason for this is that when Black Templars take casualties from shooting, they take a test that allows them the chance to make a d6 charging move TOWARDS me. So unless I kill the majority of a squad in a shooting phase, they only take two turns or less to reach my lines. Once in close combat thats pretty much it.

So...any advice on tactics, lists or what next I should purchase to combat this threat would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Old 12 Feb 2008, 06:20   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: New player needs help vs Black Templars

looking through the codex...

His ability to get to you through that extra d6 is usually due in part when he passes his morale tests.

Yet, theres a catch.

Like blood rage on khorne old chaos space marine codex, he must charge closer to the "nearest visible unit" meaning, you can control when and where he goes if you play your cards right.

This is "righteous zeal" ask about it if you like.

Further more

He can also upgrade his squad for 2 points per more to re roll that d6 inch movement.



-----------------

Secondly his emperors champion, doesn't technically lead his army. He must be taken due to some rule wordings, in your point category game. He still has to choose up to two Hqs.

hes not technically bad however.
----

on the subject of crusaders.

These guys are a mix of 4+ armor, and 3+ armor, and in the category you mentioned he either has

10 initiates to 10 neophytes

or

10 initiates to 5 neophytes.

The kicker in this unit is that their top leadership is 8, the plus side however is that the unit can get to 20 men strong, and the unit is relatively cheap by marine standards.

10 initiates, 10 neophytes =260+whatever weapons.

These guys have the options to take ccw/bolt pistols for close combat, or they can sit back and fire with standard plasma cannons, heavy bolters etc...which may not be your case.

he only has options to take one power weapon per crusader squad. According to base troop ruling.

----

on to sword bretheran.

These guys were meant for close combat. They are skilled in many veteran skills, ranging from infiltrate, counterattack, and furious charge (they must pick one however)

They can take two power weapons at most it seems, or lightning claws/power fist and a power weapon.

These guys will number 10 at most, and are only as tough as other marines.

yet they can keep you on your toes.

---------

Final recommendations

Crusaders can be pinned, so can sword bretheran. The mistake I believe you made was giving them the opportunity to move further.

you should have used marker lights, and their effects to reduce crusader leadership for pinning purposes.

If what you say is true, having sniper teams ready to pummel one flank with high number units, might be the way to go.

And while they are pinned concentrate on the left (or right flank) that the pinned squads arent.

if thou cant kill, disable your enemies legs, then molest his brother.



If his army is too busy coming to you. Take out his tanks by other means, or harass his lines with stealth suits, crisis suits etc...

---

Pinning may not be possible, if he takes the "uphold the honor of the emporer" vow.


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Old 12 Feb 2008, 08:55   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: New player needs help vs Black Templars

well, to counter the rightious zeal.

It requires a leadership test. so i would recommend using your marker lights to reduce the enemies leadership so that it is less lickly for them to run forward. use your kroot as a distraction, they are only 119pts and you can easily use them to infiltrate into some terrain closer to the enemy. this will allow the marines to run toward them. giving you maybe an extra turn to shoot the crap into them but that is just my 2 sense
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Old 13 Feb 2008, 02:09   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: New player needs help vs Black Templars

I love playing black templars. To send them in an annoying spin, do as suggested above, pinning one side while firing at the other, but as they must go to the closest unit, buy a few units of 7 or 8 drones. MORE THAN ONE UNIT THOUGH. move these up on the fired-at side, behind and on the table edge side of them. This will slow them down, and draw them from your firing line. Put small kroot or firewarrior "speedbump" squads to the left and right flank of your firing base. Deepstrike a few fusion blaster-armed crisis to take care of transports (hello rear armor!), and launch a few hyper-velocity railgun bullets at ang thing bigger than your broadsides. That should do it. Post the results of your next battle, I want to see how it goes.
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Old 13 Feb 2008, 19:27   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: New player needs help vs Black Templars

Thanks all! I'll go ahead and try those suggestions out. We're scheduled to play again in a couple of weeks so I'll see how it goes and if I have any questions I'll repost. Thanks again!
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Old 14 Feb 2008, 12:29   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: New player needs help vs Black Templars

Hey what's up. I'm new to Tau but I am ancient to Templars. The Templars can get leadership 10 for all everyone if your friend takes a marshal. As for righteous zeal watch out for squads lead by Chaplains especially ones with cenobyte servitors. Each servitors gives the chaplains and squad he is attached to a extra 1" move added to the the righteous zeal d6, possibly increasing his move to a max of 9" if a six is rolled and he has 3 servitors. The Chaplian also allows the unit to re-roll the righteous zeal if he don't like the initial roll. But this can only happen once per righteous zeal roll. The Chaplain also allows the unit to pick which unit to charge not just the nearest visible unit. Units that don't benefit from the righteous zeal are terminators, vehicles, bike squads, and assault squads. The righteous zeal is one of the Templars premier tools to get them to do what they are best at.

That sword brethren unit is nasty. They get pretty much one of every heavy hitting weapon if chosen. 1 pair of Lighting Claws, 1 power fist and 1 power weapon. But this is expensive. I would suggest knocking out this unit and his vehicles as soon as possible. To negate the righteous zeal try to concentrate on one infantry squad at a time, so you don't have a mass of black armor nasty all coming at you at once. If you don't kill a Templar the rest wont get that extra d6 charge. Something to keep in mind. That is what a Templar wants you to do. Shoot his people so he can charge and eat you in the first round of combat and consolidate into your next unit. Watch out for units lead by Chaplains, on the initial charge him and the unit he is with get to re-roll all misses for that first round. I hope this helps, this is my first Tau post. If my Templars brothers from the BolterandChainsword knew I said all this I would be shunned. Good Luck.
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Old 14 Feb 2008, 20:14   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: New player needs help vs Black Templars

I may not have a perminant solution, but this is something that has worked for me with EXCELLENT results. If you have 8 Gun Drones form the squad up 6 inches infront of your fire warriors, spacing them out 2 inches apart so they maintain unit coherency but form a long line. When the Templars get close, they will have to assault the drones to get to your fire warriors. They will usually win but, this will give you an entire shooting phase where your firewarriors have rapid fire doubleing their number of shots. If you have enough fire on them you can destroy them.

I have also, when dealing with massed melee (orks, tyranids) done the above, but doubled. As in line the drones up in front, then when those are assaulted, move a similar line of drones up from behind my fire warriors so I get yet another shooting phase to defeat my enemy.

Hope this helps.
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Old 14 Feb 2008, 20:38   #8 (permalink)
Tyr
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Default Re: New player needs help vs Black Templars

Two words.Focus fire. Shoot only at one squad per turn with everything you can, leave the other squads till later esp if you can only score 1 or 2 casualties, this will deny them there righteous zeal, Fly your hammerheads around behind his lines and pull back any unit not lead by a chaplain, he doesn't seem to have alot of antitank fire, Your broadsides should be able to toast his LR in short order.
Krrot as bait is a good idea.
Possibly you could drop the skyray and use it as an ionhead instead (you should have all the parts in the box) then with two ionheads adn all your fire warriors you shouldn't have two much trouble killing a squad of marines a turn.
The gun drone tactic mentioned by Ltcmdrtyler can work however the price of 8 drones is similar to a 10man firewarrior squad so you could use them instead, also it is risky if they don't get wiped and then hold in combat cause you can guarantee that they will die in your assault allowing his marines to run into your firing line. I would put this in the situation dependant box.
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Old 14 Feb 2008, 20:56   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: New player needs help vs Black Templars

Do this with your troops.
-------------------
( Fire base )
-------------------


small squad small squad

This way, when you shoot at them and they move against the closest unit they will move to the sides, not forward. Use infiltrating kroot to do this. You can also take the 2 drones of your devil fish and have them move to the flank of the Templar's (must be closer to them then your troops are) to hold them back even more. Also, deploy all your men in ruins or cover, with all your men at least 7in away from any other squad of yours. This way after you lose a unit you can still shoot at them with the rest of your men since they can't consolidate into your men.
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Old 30 Mar 2008, 02:58   #10 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: New player needs help vs Black Templars

Ok so the suggestions given to me worked wonderfully, until my buddy found a way around it. Two words...drop pods. He'll send sword brethren, termies, dreds...how do I beat the drop pod rush?
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