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Saving throws and rolling to wound in CC
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Old 02 Feb 2008, 05:49   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Saving throws and rolling to wound in CC

Ive got a question about saving throws and wounds in CC and shooting. Here is the example I saw tonight that was very frustrating.

I charged a group of 10 orks with a Ghazgul Thraka model(just hoping to kill as many boyz as I could) with 16 kroot. We tied in initial combat with 0 wounds and 0 wounds, so we piled in. He attacked first with Ghazgul killing 2 kroot. I attacked back with with 14 kroot. I scored an amazing 18 hits then 14 wounds, and this is what is frustrating me, he decided to take all 14 wounds on Thraka, and SUCCESFULLY made 14 2+ armor saves, no 1's. You can understand my extreme frustration with a attack that could have whiped out all the orks, but instead not killing anyone. Are you actually allowed allocate all wounds on 1 model for purpose of armor saves?

Second, several times shooting at the same squad of Ghazgul and his boys, he allocated the rolling to wound hits went on Ghazgul, making it harder to wound then making it pratically impossible to get by his 2+ armor. Are you also allowed to take all shooting from a squad on one man?

Third, I didnt use an template weapons but tonight makes me think, if I hit that same group with a template weapon, could he simple make Ghazguls to wound and armour saves for all models under the template?

Please well me something good...
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Old 02 Feb 2008, 06:37   #2 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Saving throws and rolling to wound in CC

Page 51 of the rules. near bottom, Assault Phase.

"Characters are treated as a separate unit when resolving close combats, following the rules for multiple combats (page 45). . . However, wounds suffered by a unit never carry over onto a character that joined them."

It sounds like you got jipped. the wounds should have counted against the unit, not the character. you can specifically attack the character if you want or the unit w/o the character.
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Old 02 Feb 2008, 06:59   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Saving throws and rolling to wound in CC

What about in the pile in move? Could he take all the attacks and wounds once we haved piled in?
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Old 02 Feb 2008, 07:31   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Saving throws and rolling to wound in CC

it does not specify anything about that in the "Pile In" rules.
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Old 02 Feb 2008, 07:40   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Saving throws and rolling to wound in CC

If it was shooting, he could have.

but you were jipped man.

(Cant imagine Thraka pulling a matrix, and taking all the attacks in a 10-15 feet wide area. In addition you wont care about your boyz THAT MUCH.)

There is a reason why you cant make all armor saves on a hq unit in combat. Someone cant pull a vash the stampede save your life miracle. Each of these boyz needs to be hurt, or fight back.
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Old 02 Feb 2008, 07:49   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Saving throws and rolling to wound in CC

Well Actually....

If you didn't say what you we're hitting at with what, he could force you to be hitting the IC, however, it is quite imposible for 14 Kroots to all be able to hit the Charecter, as they would have to be all standing, Base-To-Base to Each Other, All of them!

And unless that happened, you got ripped off¨.


All you ever have to do, is, say what your hitting at, with how many models (Ei, 12 out of 14 Kroots can hit the boyz, and thus they do, the 2 others hits the charecter) In which case hes forced to take saves arcordingly to the wounds you cause, and ot that case, he'd proberly be screwed pretty badly, now only going under 11 models (Fearless) And thus having to take LD tests, but also having to take it with a Bad modifier (Charecter LD -Modifers) and that could actually get him to flee, in which case you could easily have won that Assault combat.


Anywhos, hoped it helped....

Always say what your hitting, with what!
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Old 02 Feb 2008, 07:53   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Saving throws and rolling to wound in CC

and i know i am never afraid to hold a game to check my rule book. sounds stupid i know, but better to be right and wait 2 mins then wrong.
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Old 02 Feb 2008, 08:04   #8 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Saving throws and rolling to wound in CC

Yep, you got hosed. In Close Combat, models in base-to-base go for Thraka, models that are in base-to-base with boyz attack them. Models within 2" but not in base-to-base can decide.

In shooting, you used Mixed Armour and Majority Toughness rules to decide how armor saves get taken. It is never possible to pile all the wounds from one wave of shooting onto one model before saving throws.
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Old 02 Feb 2008, 08:12   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Saving throws and rolling to wound in CC

Well, I thank everyone for your help, this makes me exceedingly happy. But, I know he wont be happy when I tell him this, so how can I prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that he cant do what he is doing?
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Old 02 Feb 2008, 08:16   #10 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Saving throws and rolling to wound in CC

Well, the shooting phase stuff is in the back with the special rules. I don't have it with me, but someone can give you the page number. It is pretty clear. Same thing with ICs (and Wound Allocation) in close combat. It is pretty clear if you have the rulebook in front of you.
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