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Tau vs Tyranids, need some advice.
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Old 25 Jan 2008, 00:13   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 194
Default Tau vs Tyranids, need some advice.

Hi folks

I debated where to put this topic, and my initial thought was to put it in the "Army Lists", but since this is not really a question on the list, I decided to post it here in "general" Tau. I hope a mod moves it if I'm wrong.

We'll lets get to the point, I have recently joined a local map based campaign where the participants fight for territories on a map. We will use a fixed list for the whole campaign, gaining a few points underway (based on progress) to expand our army. After looking at the factions that most of the other participants were going to play, I decided on a list that would be sort of a "all-comers" list, but geared a bit toward fighting Space Marines and Chaos, as 50-60% of the opponents seem to play those factions.

I have a "battle plan" of sorts for facing most armies, and even if I haven't been playing the game for very long I have been lucky enough to face most other factions more than once, The only army I haven't had the opportunity to face is Tyranids. It's also one of the few factions that I have yet to develop a "strategy" to combat.

So of course one of the two armies I ended up being attacked by in the first campaign-round is the only Tyranid-player participating in the campaign. (The other was a Chaos "World Eaters" list that I have already met and defeated). Also the Tyranid player has been saying that "Tau is one of the armies he should be able to beat easily" and looking at his list I can't hlep seeing his point

So what I'm looking for from you (the TO community) Is advice on tactics and how to beat him, or force a draw (which is good enough for defending my territory in the campaign).

I have heard that taking out synapse is key to beating nids, but he just seem to have so many creatures with synapse, so what targets to prioritize?

How should I deploy? I'm leaning toward deploying FW's outside of their transports, as a sort of static firing line, maybe with a Kroot screen in front (hopefully in woods, or at least some sort of terrain).
I also though about deploying my army mainly on one part of the deployment zone, but I'm afraid that he'll use the opportunity to "herd me" into a corner where I have no room to maneuver.

I see that a lot of his units are insanely fast (6" move + fleet + 12" assault), and that probably means that I'll have them in "my face" pretty quick.

As you probably can tell I'm a bit worried about this battle, not because I can't stand loosing (I've done that enough since starting out playing ), It's just that I hate going into a battle without at least some kind of strategy or plan.

Here is my list, please remember that I can't change anything about it, and neither can the Tyranid player before the battle.

HQ
Shas'El
Cyclic ion blaster, burst cannon, hardwired multi tracker, targeting array.
88p

Troops
9 Fire Warriors with Pulse Rifles in Warfish
smart missile system, multi-tracker, decoy launcher, targeting array
+ 1 Shas'ui Team Leader
230p

Troops
9 Fire Warriors with Pulse Rifles in Warfish
smart missile system, multi-tracker, decoy launcher, targeting array
+ 1 Shas'ui Team Leader
230p

13 Kroot
84p

13 Kroot
84p

Elites
3 x XV8 "Deathrain" Crisis-suits
Team leader, Twin-linked missile pods, targeting array
159p

2 x XV8 "Blinding Spear" Crisis-suits
Burst cannon, plasma rifle, multi-tracker
116p

Heavy
Railhead
Railgun, multi-tracker, decoy launcher, burst cannon
165p

Ionhead
Ion Cannon, multi-tracker, decoy launcher, burst cannon
130p

2x XV88 "Broadside"
twin-linked lrailgun, smart missile system, advanced stabilization system
teamleader has hard wired drone controller and two Shield Drones
195

Total
1500



His (Tyranid army contains)

Hive Tyrant
2 Scything Talons, Wings, Toxin Sacs, Warp Field
178p

Brood lord
Toxin Sacs
80p

6 Genestealers
Extended Carapse
120p

3 Warriors
Scything T, Rending Claws, Leaping, Bioplasma, Extended Carapse, Adrenalin G
123p

3 Warriors
Scything T, Rending Claws, Leaping, Bioplasma, Extended Carapse, Adrenalin G
123p

16 Spinegaunts
80p

15 Termagaunts
90p

11 Hormagaunts
110p

10 Hormagaunts
With Adrenalin Glands (i)
110p

10 Hormagaunts
With Adrenalin Glands (i)
110p

10 Hormagaunts
100p

1 Ravener
Rending Claw & Scything talons
40p

1 Ravener
Rending Claw & Scything talons
40p

3 Zoanthropes
Warp Blast, Synapse
195p

SUM
1499p

So folks, please let me know what you think, any insights and comments are appreciated, especially from people who have experience in dealing with the nids.

Rune
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Old 25 Jan 2008, 00:51   #2 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Default Re: Tau vs Tyranids, need some advice.

Well, of what I can see on that list, you dont have to much to worry about.

The models able to kill your fishes and hammers he has are the ones with Rending, the Hive Tyrant and the 2x Zoanthropes.

This means: Kill those, and you can "simply" fly around the rest of the time, but hey, thats not all...

Zoanthropes are slow, so can easily be counted by mobility, so they aint the biggest threat on your list right now.

Now, the only real annoyance I see, is that he splits out so much, meaning you gotta shoot at more on different targets, so my what I would do is kill in as following:

Genestealer+Broodlord.

Warriors.

Raveners.

Tyrant.

All those Troop Choices.

Zoanthropes.



Now,

Stay mobile, and what can be mobile stays in cover, to hit first! He didn't make his Hormagaunts better, or alot that is, so this means they strike at S3! WS4 and such. Makes alot of difference.

Focus fire your shooting towards units so they actually die, before going on to next is a great idea, say Use Kroots to fire Hormagaunts, Termagaunts, use Deathrain for Warriors/Genestealers, FoF for Priority List.

Getting turn 1 will really save you alot of trouble, removing 2-4 units, with correct deployment.

Oh, yea...

He doesnt have that much Synapse, 4 units, to be exact.

Warriors
Tyrant
Zoan

So, you could actually target this, by your own choice, and he wouldn't be able to take much beating.

Warriros go down easily by Pulse and Missile Pods
Tyrant and Zoan goes down by Railgun, Plasma Rifle shots, this can quickly deminish his Synapse to nothing, seeing how their all vulnerable units.


List is long, but make sure not to deploy to close to each other, for your units, if he ever gets those massacre moves, and rolls high, he can easily catch alot.




So, just:

Target Prioritize, Choose what you wish to kill out:

Synapse, "Able to Kill Tanks", or the masses.

Either way, just stay focused, if you dont got cover, keep moving, delay close combat, to you can counter it, his only really, really dangoures unit as i honestly only see his Genestealers with the Broodlord as something.
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5 Solid
2 Minor
1 Draw
0 Losses

Armies Played:
Tyranid, Chaos, Space Marines, Necrons, Daemon Hunters.
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Old 25 Jan 2008, 06:43   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5
Default Re: Tau vs Tyranids, need some advice.

..... typed up a decent post and ill defiantly get back to ya tomorrow ... but i lost it in some kinda time out .. and of course I never saved it..getting late for me*hopefully before ya play you're game =(

good luck
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Old 25 Jan 2008, 08:02   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,920
Default Re: Tau vs Tyranids, need some advice.

Glad to see you are still playing Nanostorm. Next campaign we will need Commanders who can do well against Tyranids, so practice.

Primo gave you a lot of really good advice. You should definitely go after all the Synapse and anti-tank first (which is one and the same). I would use the following units to target his units, in this order:

Tyrant---Broadsides, Blinding Spear XV8's, Shas'El

Broodlord/Genestealers---Submunition from Hammerhead, Kroot (pillbox in cover), Fire Warriors (start out of Warfish in cover), and the Warfish until unit is destroyed then focus on the Hormagaunts or the Raveners if they show up in your lines.

Warriors---Ionhead and Deathrain XV8's.

Zoanthropes---After the Tyrant and Warriors are dead mount your Fire Warriors and get away from these guys. Use the Broadsides, Blinding Spears, Hammerhead, Deathrains, and Ionhead to kill them.

After you take out those units, his army will fold. In case you can't wipe them out fast enough keep all your ground units more than 6" apart, and spread out the army. Do not get stuck in a corner or your army will die. Have your Kroot forward of the Fire Warriors and in cover. Do not charge anything, but use their rifles to whittle down the Hormagaunt squads. Let them come to you and hit them on Int 10 with their 2 attacks. Once the little guys get close to you line mount the Fire Warriors and redeploy where it is safe.

Your opponent will likely infiltrate the Broodlord so try and use the Kroot to deny a good place to set up, but be sure to cover areas you think he might infiltrate into with the Hammerhead and at least one unit of Fire Warriors.

The Flyrant will probably rush your line. The CIB is actually pretty good at wounding them. Try to get the Blinding Spears in double tap range. If he moves the Tyrant with the main swarm do not send the Shas'El to die there, but pick it off from a distance with plasma and railguns.

For deployment I would place the Ionhead first and right in the middle of the board, as this is probably where the swarm/Warriors are going to go. Next I would put down the Hammerhead to counter where ever you think the Broodlord will infiltrate. After that I'd stick the Broadsides across from the Zoanthropes that should be on the board by then.

Give us a battrep when you finish the battle. Good luck.

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Old 25 Jan 2008, 18:22   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tau vs Tyranids, need some advice.

I'm not a very good tactition, and rarely play games, but for the greater good load up on submunition!
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Old 26 Jan 2008, 22:19   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Tau vs Tyranids, need some advice.

Soutfox summed it up nicely. A few things to watch out for..

Those pesky Ravener's and there ability to show up in terrain , i can just about guarantee ya there going to be going for you're sides to tie them up if not kill them with rending >< plop at least one kroot squad around you're 'sides to prevent that. and maby even the other in the next closest piece.

Deploy deep to try to avoid second turn combat, and have you're FW unmounted for deployment utilizing you're 30" range to rip apart some Hormagaunts or put some wounds on that Flyrant.

You'll probably see the 3 Zonethropes spread out in a line at max deployment range one center and one on each flank. the Flyrant is likely to be centralized with the 2 broods on warriors either on one side or one flank each , if he does place them both on one side the broodlord +genestealers will likely be infiltrating the other flank.

I would recommend concentrating fire on the Flyrant *sides FW and blinding spear's* and further recommend if it came down to it bring you're spears into rapid fire range * if they would probably end up being charged buy the Flyrant anyways but make it so that A,only the Flyrant can charge them B, the Flyrant is in a potential kill zone for the sides.

Don't forget how badly you're sms from you're sides will mess up those gaunt squads with no los required he might forget and not have them in cover, thinking that you have no los >

For dealing with the hormaguants fish o furry will wax 1 squad per turn or pretty darn close. planting you're troops to furry in some terrain will help out tremendously as well, getting to strike first if you didn't manage to kill em all or underestimated another squads ability to charge.

Watch out for those zone's there perfectly capable of rocking you're suits but only have bs 3 for shooting you're tanks *and if i rember correctly there range is limited.

GL and Happy nid hunting

P.S. please don't mind the terrible grammar and spelling
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Old 27 Jan 2008, 03:28   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: May 2005
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Default Re: Tau vs Tyranids, need some advice.

I've always had problems with the gaunts. They move so fast that they can get in my face before I can kill many. I would pour all your fire into the hormigants first. If they get into your lines, you're dead. Once the fast gaunts are dead, then focus on the big creatures.
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Old 28 Jan 2008, 07:13   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 194
Default Re: Tau vs Tyranids, need some advice.

Thanks for the replies everyone, I'm playing him this Thursday so if you have any other advice keep it coming!

A lot of your insigths really help put things in perspective, and now I'm really eager to play this match because it will strain my tactical abilities. All the way from deployment I'll have to concentrate. One of the main issues will be to deny his genestealers+broodlord a good place to infiltrate as I will almost surely be going second (it's one of the special rules for the area I am defending).
One question relating to that, the Broodlord does not have the "fleet" special rules as far as I can see. Does that mean that the Genestealers will lose the ability to fleet as well if they are joined by the Broodlord?

Also, I just want to make sure I have the stats on the Hormagaunts correct. They can move 6", then fleet D6" and then assult 12" right (for a potential 24")?

I can't help thinking that if I can put the sub-munition pie plate on top of that unit of Genestealers I could be rid of a big problem.

I'm still a bit unsure of how to deploy the FW's. Inside the DF's or outside (to get to shoot that first round).

And Scoutfox, I'll definitely write up a batrep when I have played the battle.

Rune
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Old 28 Jan 2008, 07:37   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Tau vs Tyranids, need some advice.

As far as I can see the submunition is now your friend! The only thing that achualy gets an armour save against it is the tyrant and zoanthroes ^-^
look at it this way each dot is a tyranid
.........................................
.........................................
..........................................
fire submunition
....... .............
..... ..............
...... ...........
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Old 28 Jan 2008, 07:42   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Posts: 197
Default Re: Tau vs Tyranids, need some advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanostorm
<br />Thanks for the replies everyone, I'm playing him this Thursday so if you have any other advice keep it coming!<img src="http://forums.tauonline.org/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif" border="0" alt="" title="" onresizestart="return false;" id="smiley_1_smiley.gif" /><br /><br />A lot of your insigths really help put things in perspective, and now I'm really eager to play this match because it will strain my tactical abilities. All the way from deployment I'll have to concentrate. One of the main issues will be to deny his genestealers+broodlord a good place to infiltrate as I will almost surely be going second (it's one of the special rules for the area I am defending). <br />One question relating to that, the Broodlord does not have the "fleet" special rules as far as I can see. Does that mean that the Genestealers will lose the ability to fleet as well if they are joined by the Broodlord?<br /><br />Also, I just want to make sure I have the stats on the Hormagaunts correct. They can move 6", then fleet D6" and then assult 12" right (for a potential 24")?<br /><br />I can't help thinking that if I can put the sub-munition pie plate on top of that unit of Genestealers I could be rid of a big problem. <br /><br />I'm still a bit unsure of how to deploy the FW's. Inside the DF's or outside (to get to shoot that first round). <br /><br />And Scoutfox, I'll definitely write up a batrep when I have played the battle.<br /><br />Rune<br />
Yep, hormagaunts are move 6", fleet d6" and assault 12", which means that he cant at the earliest be i closecombat by 2. turn

About the firewarriors, you can deploy the outside of the fish, he doesn't have anything that can assault you in turn 1, not even the genestealers in a perfect infiltrate position, since they loose fleet when they have a broodlord (although they gain infiltrate)

Personally, i'd try to avoid hugging the terrain to much, because of his 2 raveners, or at least spread my suits out alot, so they wont all get caught
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