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Problems with Eldars: Tactics?
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Old 23 Jan 2008, 13:59   #1 (permalink)
Doc
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Default Problems with Eldars: Tactics?

Hello fellow fire caste warriors!

This is my fist post, and I haven't played tau for more than a year. I have a Mechanized tau army which I am very proud of. My army list is pretty standard and usually converges to a variation of the following:

Shas'el - fireknife
Shas'el - fireknife

Crisis team - fireknives
Crisis team - fireknives

FW+Devilfish
FW+Devilfish

Pathfinders + devilfish
Drone squadron

Railhead
Railhead
Railhead

I have played many games against various opponents, but Eldars always proved very hard to play against. I usually keep my railgun shots for infantry (submunition), but it seems I cant slow the transports/tanks enough to make my shooting effective.

Perhaps a tactica thread exists, please give the reference link if this is the case.

Thanks for all replies!

Doc
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Old 23 Jan 2008, 14:09   #2 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Problems with Eldars: Tactics?

Maybe the problem is you keep falling asleep from playing an army this boring...

You haven't exactly given us much to work on; what it is that gives you trouble? I'm assuming, given your army, the Eldar are just jumping into vehicles with Holofields, rushing in, blowing the hell out of your cookie-cutter formations and generally force-feeding you monomolecular hell. Can't say I blame them.

If you're going to try and shoot down the Eldar, particularly Eldar hiding behind a Holofield, it is quantity that counts. Railguns are a waste of time, you need Ionheads, Burst Cannons and other weapons that spew out shots in high numbers. Missile Pods are the way to go against AV 12.


Your army frankly reeks of Anti-Marine. Unless you learn to take a bath and wash away this taint, you are never going to win against anyone who isn't walking across the board in 3+ Save.
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Old 23 Jan 2008, 14:09   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Problems with Eldars: Tactics?

Here are the things Eldar hates:


Deathrain
Ion Cannon
Lots of opposing Skimmers



Always be on the move, never let him close the distance, Tau cannot win against Eldar in a short ranged firefight, not even in fast skimmers. Strength 7 multi shot weapons will down Eldar vehicles with relative ease. Three deathrains is a huge headache if you make sure the Eldar player doesn't outflank you. Ionheads are also much better than Railheads in every way. Also seeker missiles will finish off small hidden Eldar units like JSJ jetbikes, support weapon platforms and such.
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Old 23 Jan 2008, 14:19   #4 (permalink)
Doc
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Default Re: Problems with Eldars: Tactics?

Quote:
Maybe the problem is you keep falling asleep from playing an army this boring...
hmm...I guess its a matter of taste.

back on topic:

I use missile pods on all my crisis suits, but surely I possess a lot of AP 2 weapons. The idea is to fix the list for tournament play. Holofields are ideed a problem, especially on a skimmer.

I was wondering what is your tactical opinion on deep striking a stealth team behind the rushing eldar wave.

Furthermore, one of the player I keep fighting against manages to reroll cover saves on his gardian units using a combination of warlocks and farseers abilities, which makes my FW teams less efficient. The use of pathfinder w/ markerlights is giving me some hope, but I was thinking about introducing a Skyray into the list.
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Old 23 Jan 2008, 14:38   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Problems with Eldars: Tactics?

I am not into Tau weaponry - but I know that the saves he use is his Concealing warlock, and a farseer using Fortune. I dont know if this is even applicable to your army, as I have never really had much experience with tau, except fire warriors. You are quite right that his rerollable 5+ cover save is a pain. In stead of supplying enough fire to gun him down anyways, you could also go fix the root of the problem. I dont know if it is possible, but if you can use AP5 weapons that negate cover saves you are over that problem. No saves for the guardians at all, left with their puny T3.

Flamers comes to mind. I dont know what flamers Tau might have though.

edit: on your other question, I wouldnt really deep strike anything behind eldar, UNLESS he is sporting lots of suppressing fire from the back, ie war walkers, reapers or platforms, even with a guiding farseer. Problem is with eldar, they redeploy fast enough to ignore the moment of surprise when you deep strike. If he also has some of the slow eldar nasties back there, I wouldnt do it. If you however can catch a doom/guideseer and a squad of reapers in cover, from behind, and not get creamed by the nearby wraithlord, I say its well worth the investment.
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Old 23 Jan 2008, 14:48   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Problems with Eldars: Tactics?

Along with everyones comments about switching ion heads and missle pods, I find there is some general rules of thumb when fighting eldar.

Go for the little stuff first; vipers, war walkers, and small units like warp spiders can dish out the fire power but are easy to kill. Start with the easiest thing to kill first, eldar are elite small fighting armies. Take out one part of the offense and the rest should fall soon enough.

Stay mobile, eldar generally speaking are fast armies, so take out their movers ie falcons wave serpents, ect... and you find a frustrated eldar player on the other side. You list is very mobile so you set up to do this already.

Hopefully that and everyone elses advice should get you a big win agianst eldar.
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Old 23 Jan 2008, 15:15   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Problems with Eldars: Tactics?

Use the refuse flank strategy from the SM codex.
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Old 23 Jan 2008, 15:29   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Problems with Eldars: Tactics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
Maybe the problem is you keep falling asleep from playing an army this boring...
Signed. I stopped fielding Fireknives years ago - you won`t find a more uninspiring Crisis config anywhere in the Empire
And your whole ARMY is full of them.

Generally speaking, fielding exact the same unit more than once (except in Apocalypse) looks rather boring imo; so I generally try to avoid it (especially with Crisis, though a duo of Ionheads generally finds its way into my list ).

But back to your problem:

Fireknives are literally useless against Eldar (against everything, imo - don`t have the time right now to explain why, though ). Even IF you have the MP on it; you still only hit once. The PR can be safely discounted against vehicles. Field Deathrains with TA`s. Suddenly, 8/9 shots hit, which definitely will give the Eldar player something to think about.

Try to avoid the Falcons (but do try to keep them stunned), and focus fire on the Serpents. First.

As the other said, kill his mobile elements first.

Cheers,
-Bone

PS: I know, Eldar are right now a tough nut to crack; but don`t worry. In 5th Edition, their Skimmers receive a biggernerf than ours do ;D
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Old 23 Jan 2008, 16:13   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Problems with Eldars: Tactics?

Quote:
PS: I know, Eldar are right now a tough nut to crack; but don`t worry. In 5th Edition, their Skimmers receive a biggernerf than ours do
What do you mean exactly?
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Old 23 Jan 2008, 16:50   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Problems with Eldars: Tactics?

they'll be made worse by more than the Tau's.

But if you're playing mech eldar go for the tanks with a huge number of shots, don't use railguns as wargamer said because the falcon's still just as likely to shrug off the hit. The same goes for serpents. Once the transports and falcons and holo-tanks are down proceed to the anti-footslogger tactics below.

Eldar find it difficult to win if they are out-manoevoured, pop into the transports and start pulling Fish of Fury tactics on them, use jump-shoot-jump tactics with the crisis suits to keep them nicely in cover (preferably jumping from over 6" in cover to just in to over 6" or if you're scared of dangerous terrain checks from behind cover to the open to back again). If he is out-manoevoured he will lose. Avoid getting too near his units.

hope that helps you.
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