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To Carbine or not to Carbine?
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Old 06 Apr 2005, 17:32   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default To Carbine or not to Carbine?

To Carbine or not to Carbine? that is the question. I know the arguments for and against this very well. Some people swear by them, some people avoid it like they do melee. I tend to go for the lesser chosen units mainly because of the surprise factor. I.E. shooty Blood Angels with 5 Tactical Squads and 2 Vindicators with Power of the Machine Spirit. Most people don't know how to react to it because they just plain have not seen it before (or very often).

I was thinking of giving Carbines to the Fire Warrior Teams because:

1. If you must redeploy, not all of your firepower is lost.

2. it causes pinning.

3. if you wanted to move into 12 inch range to rapid fire, you can attempt to pin them in place so you can have an additional turn to sit there and rapid fire at them again.

4. The shock effect.

I guess my question is this: have you toyed around with Carbines before? if yes, then how did they work for you?
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Old 06 Apr 2005, 17:44   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: To Carbine or not to Carbine?

I too have used Carbines. I use them now and then. I do not however, fill an entire squad with them. I sometimes run 2 carbines in a full squad (3 squads like that). It gives me an average chance to force a moral check (pinning test) on a squad without losing a lot of firepower (I lose 2 shots, not a huge loss). It's a great way to keep a versatile configuration when playing multiple opponents for example.

I've had it work quite nicely on Sisters of Battle, Eldar pin easily, Tyranid, Orks, Guard, etc. Generally any army with low toughness and lower leadership (not 10 for example) seem to do well with pinning. The idea is to bring enough firepower to make the squad reduced very low, maybe giving a modifier to the leadership test they'll take later. The pinning effect of the carbine is helpful especially then as you've broken a squad pretty much, but it can keep them locked there if pinned so they don't simply run off or stand their ground (or huddle to it actually). Sure beats being assaulted by some guardians or guardsmen sometimes.

I'm not a big fan of Carbines, but I do use them often in my "do it all" lists where I'm fighting any opponent and not just building a list to fight a single race.
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Old 06 Apr 2005, 17:47   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: To Carbine or not to Carbine?

Each Carbine shot has a 1.8% chance to pin a unit of Marines that is Ld 9. I would like the idea of a footslogging unit that had all Carbines... but unfortunately the only way you can get that is with Pathfinders who have to bring a Transport, and hence are not footslogging

The closest you can come is by taking a squad of 6 Firewarriors with a Shas'ui and a HW Drone Controller and 2 Gun Drones... which I have actually done before and found quite fun. Just remove the rifle carriers first and you'll be left with all Carbines!
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Old 06 Apr 2005, 17:53   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: To Carbine or not to Carbine?

The idea, I think, is to have just enough carbines in a unit to cause exactly one wound on whoever you are facing. *You can't force multiple pinning checks from a single unit, and the carbine often represents a decrease in firepower for the squad as a whole. *If you could field an entire squad with carbines, they could be employed to take advantage of the longer effective range, staying at around 16" and retreating from assaults without losing the ability to fire back. *As it is, though, that would waste the firepower of a full half of the squad. *

If you are using mechanized squads against low-armor troops, the TL carbines from the drones on the Fish may be enough to force a test. *On the other hand, because the drones are seperate squads, a two-team FoF with a few carbines in the Fire Warriors could force up to four pinning checks on your opponent.
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Old 06 Apr 2005, 17:57   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: To Carbine or not to Carbine?

Quote:
If you are using mechanized squads against low-armor troops, the TL carbines from the drones on the Fish may be enough to force a test. On the other hand, because the drones are seperate squads, a two-team FoF with a few carbines in the Fire Warriors could force up to four pinning checks on your opponent.
I never thought of that...*sctratches chin* seems devious enough. 4 pinning checks? they HAVE to roll an 11 SOMEtime in there! >
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Old 06 Apr 2005, 18:00   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: To Carbine or not to Carbine?

If all you're trying to do is to force a pinning check, then you statistically need to shoot a squad of Marines with 9 Carbines. Gun Drones are a little better since they hit slightly more often than Firewarriors. So a full squad of Gun Drones has a pretty good chance of accomplishing this objective.
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Old 06 Apr 2005, 18:11   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: To Carbine or not to Carbine?

The pinning checks are merely a plus for me. My idea for taking the Carbines is so that I will not have to ditch ALL of my firepower when I have to fall back from an approaching enemy. However the dillemma is that the long range firepower is hampered in turn with the inclusion of carbines. The reduced leadership when the model count gets to 4 or is below 4, then their Ld becomes 4...and that's not very nice....especially when I need them to keep attempting a pin check.
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Old 06 Apr 2005, 18:22   #8 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: To Carbine or not to Carbine?

I don't know that I would even bother trying to force a pinning test on marines.* It takes 9 carbines to force a test, so would it take 108 carbines to statistically have a definite pin on LD 10 troops? (check math).

Oh yeah.* Since you need to force 12 seperate tests, you would also need the 108 carbines to be in a bunch of different units.

I like them against Eldar and IG, though.
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Old 06 Apr 2005, 18:25   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: To Carbine or not to Carbine?

Well I find that its best to have a 'just in case' contingency. Also if they're mounted inh a Dfish they can pop out and shoot.
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Old 06 Apr 2005, 20:35   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: To Carbine or not to Carbine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalVeauX
Tyranid, Orks,
Tyranid don't pin easily unless you're talking about gene stealers and they generally pass LD just fine. The same goes for orks - mob size checks guarantee passing pin checks for mobs over 11 models and even those below basically get a "re-roll" since you check mob size first, then check morale. The others you mention (as well as dark eldar) are doable though.
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