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Drone: Fire Warrior: Auxilliary ratio
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Old 15 Jan 2008, 17:29   #1 (permalink)
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Default Drone: Fire Warrior: Auxilliary ratio

Does anyone know(or have an idea) of what the Drone: Fire Warrior: Auxiliary ratio is in:
1) The Tau Empire military(fluff)
2) In the Tau Empire as a whole(fluff)
3) In your personal army

I think it would be something like 4: 1: 2 for the military, and 6: 1: 4 for the empire as a whole. My reasoning being:
The Tau have a low birth-rate, as well as a small population as a whole. They are trying to create drones to try to make up for their numbers, and they also have a large amount of auxilliary forces(Gue'Vesa, Kroot, Vespid, etc...) which aid them. Among them, the Humans(breed like rabits) and Kroot(similar to orks iirc) are the most numerous, with the possibility of Vespid(possibly similar to bees, but I dunno for sure) up there as well.

As for my personal army though, I have(roughly): 3: 2: 1
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Old 15 Jan 2008, 18:20   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drone: Fire Warrior: Auxilliary ratio

Mine is roughly 1:8:2 - this factors in tank crews, and I don't use many drones at all. Though that could change if I get some sniper/shield drones...

As to the military, it's roughly 1:1 for tau and drones, while auxiliaries probably wouldn't be any higher than 2, and may in fact have a smaller presence in the military than either tau or drones.

And as far as the empire is concerned - I haven't a bleeping clue mate. Sorry.

(Any data provided/not provided here may or may not be completely or incompletely true/untrue, and is subject to being changed by an angry mod if I'm not careful as to how I write.)
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Old 15 Jan 2008, 19:47   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drone: Fire Warrior: Auxilliary ratio

The exact figure varies between Septs, and also depends on your definition of "Drone".

If everything with an AI is a Drone, all Smart Missiles, Seekers, Targetters and so on are "Drones". If only the flying round discs are considered "Drones", then that figure goes down rapidly, and will depend on the composition of the Cadre in question.

Between the Septs, the number of auxiliaries ill vary. Cadres from T`au and Tau`n will field virtually no auxilliaries, whereas Cadres from the newer worlds (and Dal`yth) are likely to field quite lots of them.

As for the overall statistic of th Empire: We have no solid numbers to back it up; the only guess I would take is that AIs outnumber the Tau quite a bit, same thing for Drones (most of them civilian, though).

Cheers,
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Old 15 Jan 2008, 20:18   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drone: Fire Warrior: Auxilliary ratio

Id've thought there'd be more Tau in the Empire than auxilaries.

Vespid-only one world

Kroot-only a handful of worlds compared to the size of the whole Empire

Humans-Imperials hate aliens so I doubt many would convert
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Old 15 Jan 2008, 20:31   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drone: Fire Warrior: Auxilliary ratio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shas vre Tau kais
Id've thought there'd be more Tau in the Empire than auxilaries.

Vespid-only one world

Kroot-only a handful of worlds compared to the size of the whole Empire

Humans-Imperials hate aliens so I doubt many would convert
Auxiliaries =/= alien civilians living under Tau rule. Auxilliaries refer to ARMED aliens integrated into the Tau military.
We don`t have numbers, but I agree; I think right now there are more Tau than other races in the Empire - NOW.

As for the exact amount, I have no idea, but I would guess it would be something like this:
1) Tau
2) Humans
3) Kroot
4-5) Nicassar/Vespid
6-7) Tarellians/Demiurg

Which brings me to my next point: Humans. First of all, yes, Imperials DO despise Aliens - but only because they were told to do so. The Por are masters of propaganda, and it doesn`t take much to persuade a Hive World worker that there`s more to life than just laboring 16 hours a day for nothing in return, when he can have proper healthcare, a nice 10-hour day and one day off every week...

As for my guess that the humans are the largest non-Tau ethinicity in the Empire, I have several reasons:
-All major conquests of the Tau in the last decades have been under Imperial rule - T`Ros, Nimbosa (though its current status is unknown), 3rd sphere expansion Septs
-Large number of men left behind during the various military operations of the Imperium against the Tau
-Last but not least: I do guess humans breed like rabbits in the 41st Millennium. I`m sure the Tau will do someting about birth control, but it will take several years until these measures show effect.

As for "low Tau-Birthrate", I haven`t read any fluff yet that would back this up. With a planned parentood (planned in the literal sense), the Fio can control exactly how many "Tau babies" are born, and I doubt they would be satisfied with a slow process - after all, all those newly conquered worlds need large amounts of Tau living and working there to show the humansthe true path...

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 15 Jan 2008, 21:02   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drone: Fire Warrior: Auxilliary ratio

The Tau Empire is...dynamic. I highly doubt we're ever going to see it in it's ideal, finished or stable configuration. On bringing a species into the Empire, it is entirely probable that a very populous species' birth rate will decline massively. That'd hint to me that Kroot, (Vespids?) and Humans are the most populace species. I.e. for the first century or so there's ruddy billions of them. But as social standards improve and Tau'va-style sociological changes begin to become standard practice the birth rate will decline rapidly.

Whilst Vespids would be very ameanable to this sort of things, and humans being up for it provided your provide them with contraceptives and/or something else to do with the time, the Kroot, on the otherhand are very resilient to Tau'vaifying of their species. So whilst Kroot aren't at odds with the Tau'va, they're not entirely under strict control either. Once they're on a planet I (and one of the BFG High Admirality, agrees with me when discussing Kroot), the Warspheres are buried and hidden and the Kroot simply scatter, breed and progress as a species.

Presumably they don't overfarm/overforrest/overhunt etc, but their numbers likely swell to maximum capacity/efficiency.

I'd warrant that this also loosely applies to the Galg too.

The less populace species, the Niccassar and the Demiurg (ASSUMPTIONS ON MY PART!) would likely find themselves swelling under the Tau Empire. So whilst the Niccassar might've been only a few million to begin with, their caravans'll be everywhere by the days of the Third Phase Expansion. Similarly, the Demiurg are safe within the Tau Empire, they'd need to spend less resources defending themselves and more on trading and proliferating.

IMO:
Tau, Kroot, Humans, Galg, Vespids all number in terms of useful citizenry at around the 'many billions' mark. Most Tau sept worlds will likely never have more'n a billion or so per planet. Sa'cea, IIRC, is the closest to 'Hive World' the Tau have, so let's suggest it's a world-alone population of five billion Tau with about another five billion scattered through the Sept. The other Septs, then, would have populations less than ten billion per sept (not per world as this includes the buckets of orbitals, colonies, moons, outposts, waystations etc that litter Tau space). So, there's, what, twenty septs?

I'd say an upper maximum of Tau populace is 200 Billion. But then, that's maximum. Almost every sept'd have less than ten billion, alot less. So a safe bet, IMO, would be to posit that the Tau Empire contains...20-50 Billion Tau.

But for every Tau there'd be 'individual' drones. That is: Discy stuff. Stuff that'd actually be counted under the "DX" classifications and similar. Expanding past that I'd happily say there's about a trillion drones in the empire (trillion is thousand billion, i.e. 1,000,000,000,000 isn't it?). A phenomenal amount of drones. Ludicrous, really.

Anyhow, bringing it back down the scale slightly. With Kroot I'd say that, for the planets that suit them (AU'TAAL!), there'd easily be upwards of a billion on them. Suggest then that there's ten billion kroot in the Empire

A trillion Drones
Twenty billion Tau
Twenty billion Kroot
Twenty-thirty-forty billion humans(?) Humans (It really depends on how many human worlds, how big they were, for how long, and to what degree of integration...)
A few to lots of billions of Vespids. We just don't know enough about them.
Say about five billion galg.

That is: The individual races aren't terribly numerous, given how far they'll have proliferated. The human populations, assuming no more humans arrive from outside (FALSE ASSUMPTION), would drop to around only a couple of billion and then increase again as they scatter throughout the Empire. Kroot will increase slowly from only a couple of hundred/planet to many millions, but this'd take a fair bit of time. And even then, they don't mind dying so long as the genetics are passed on...

Vespids, I can see them being alloted free reign of viable gas giants.

Anyhow, I'm digressing very widely here.

It really depends upon how dense the conglomerations of people are and how much use anyone makes of everything.

So, to summarise, and disregard the bulk of my own reasoning, I'd say Empire Wide you'd have a ratio of about...

100:1:7

100 Drones, 1 Tau, 7 Auxilliaries. But the auxilliary number is changing (birth rate decrease but more brought in from outside...who knows what it'd actually be!), and the drone:tau ratio is about stable (as both are very controllable things).
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Old 15 Jan 2008, 22:23   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drone: Fire Warrior: Auxilliary ratio

perhaps I was a bit vague in terms of what a "drone" is. I was thinking something akin to the Gun, Shield, Sniper, Marker, etc... drone. Though then again, the equivalent to a taxi could very well be a drone all in itself. Perhaps anything that is self-portable, and capable of "intelligent" thought(ie it can either be used remotely, as is the case of Sniper Drones, or it could be left to its own devices, as Gun Drones).

As to my assumption to a low birthrate:
The "stable" reproduction rate of humans(currently) is 2.01, meaning for every family consisting of a father/mother, they must have 2 children, with every thousand or so having 3 on average. The Tau have a somewhat small population, and from what I can tell, have always had a small population. Or atleast small-enough that they could almost wipe themselves out to extinction(something humanity has not been able to do before nuclear weapons). Even with the Black Plague of the medieval era, there were still many, many people left on the earth. In the current incarnation of the universe, it seems acceptable that one sept has roughly as many tau as a single human hive-world at maxmimum. IIRC, the current date is approximately 41,000ish A.D. The Tau were discovered approximately 38,000 A.D. During which time, they were using sticks and pointy sticks to fight. It is also commonly accepted(AFAIK) that the Tau have roughly half a human life-span, at roughly 50-60 years. Assuming the Tau reach maturity at 15, that would give about 200 generations.

<deviation>To give your eyes a rest, I'm going to start a new paragraph, and slightly change subjects. IIRC, the human growth can be followed exponentially, much like cellular growth. For every unit above the set level, you will have the next generation increasing, and in creasing and increasing. For example, if you have two "units"(man/woman for humans) capable of procreating, that means each will spit out(sorry for the phrasing) 2 children each to remain constant, but if they each create 4 children(for the sake of multiples of two), that is enough for 8 children, or 4 "units" Those 4 interbreed, and have 4 to create 16, then 32, etc.... That is population growth. Now, if they each had 2 population(and no one ever died), they would stay at a consistent 2 "units". If each only had one children, that woudl create one "unit" and well, that's the end of them</deviation>

Now, when I try to do the math of the humans over the course of their history, I come up with something along the lines of: {population}2^(x*y)={population'}
where
{population}=base population
x=number of generations
y=base population replacement rate(ie how much above 2 the population is replacing itself. 0=static population)
When I solve for the assumed population, I get a .01 increase, which seems much too small. In the real-world, that would be enough to stay at roughly equilibrium. Assumed 50x10^15...50,000,000,000,000,000(50 quadrillion) from 8,000,000,000(8 billion). It's been a while since I've used exponentials.

Going from an estimated 10,000 tau at the near-extinction point to the currently estimated 40,000,000,000 over 3,000 years, with the above-mentioned Tau maturity age of 15 years, would allow for 200 generations. Using the above-mentioned equation as well, that allows for a rate of .11, about 10x that of the humans. Hmm...guess I was mistaken then. The above-mentioned has been stricken from the record. Never thought the Tau would be bunnythumpers... :
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Old 20 Jan 2008, 09:18   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drone: Fire Warrior: Auxilliary ratio

What about the life expectancies of the races?

We know from the Aun'shi fluff that 40 is old for a Tau

We could assume that humans haven't changed too much

What about the other races?

How long the races live would have a huge impact on the size of their population
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Old 20 Jan 2008, 14:48   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drone: Fire Warrior: Auxilliary ratio

Modeling the Tau Empires Growth Patterns

From the codex we can deduce we won't have a linear pattern of growth, nor will we have a basic exponential of;

P=Ae[sup]kt[/sup]

Thus we must factor other features in;

-Deaths by warfare
-Controlled birth rates
-Natural decline in birth rates

Now Deaths by warfare may increase by a factor of power 2. Thus looking at the surface area the Tau Empire has to patrol and have conflict in. This is because the Empire doesn't fight within itself. Now this increase of the Empire will have respect to time. Thus assuming that the Tau empire (at size now) has a diameter of 4-6 lyrs as per a large galactic cluster then we can assume;

A=4(PI)r[sup]2[/sup] and dr/dt = 2.5lyr/3000yrs = 8.3x10[sup]-3[sup]

However how many deaths come about because of these wars? There is no real way of knowing. Lets pick some arbitrary percentage, we can fiddle this about. Say 5%

Therefore we could say that deaths from wars are modelled;

P=4(PI)(tdr/dt)[sup]2[/sup] / 0.05 where P is 5% of the current Empires area.

This of course is a percentage of the population increase from the year before.

[hr]

We also have the controlled birth rate to look at. Therefore I suggest we leave this as an extra constant. C. As we can never really find it and it would be an additional function rather than part of the model as it would be chaotic.

[hr]

This leaves the natural decline in birth rates. Which we could model with;

e[sup]-ct[/sup] where c is proportional to the increase or Dkt

[hr]

hence we could model the Tau Empires population;

P=[Ae[sup]kt[/sup] - e[sup]-Dkt[/sup]][ 4(PI)(tdr/dt)[sup]2[/sup] / 0.05]+C

However this is still a bad model as it suggests the Tau would alone have a population in the region of 10^76 by the year 3000. Which is not resonable. Therefore we should conclude that the Tau are dieing off pretty badly because of there wars or they hardly reproduce at all! Or this model needs to be refined greatly in its constants.

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Old 25 Jan 2008, 22:01   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drone: Fire Warrior: Auxilliary ratio

Actually we don't relly know mutch of the tau apart from their military (the same stands for kroot and vespid). I mean here family patterns, time of pregnancy, number of children born from one pregnancy (twin birth is rather rare at humans, not talking about triple twins etc.; on the other hand dogs potentially have 6 puppies/pregnancy).

For us a father+mother+1-3children family pattern is quite obvious, what we dont know is how obvious is that in case of the aforementioned species (eg. for me tau look rather like acient chinese in many aspects - greater good, things like that - translated to family pettern that means 2 wife plus a number of concubines per man).

Actually I don't remember if Xenology mentioned anything about the reproduction of kroots, so I1m not sure they don't lay eggs. Vespid, being insectoid have a different reproduction rate too.

To sum up: IMHO we (or at least I) don't have enough hints in the fluff to make correct estimations. Anyway it's fun.

P.S.: I'm quite sure human lifespan in the Imperium - for the average subject - is by far not as high as in todays Europe os US, maybe somewhere around the average of the industrial revolution: about 40-45 years.
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