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human helpers question
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Old 11 Jan 2008, 17:32   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default human helpers question

Why must our human helpers be stuck using sub standard lasguns when we've upgraded kroot and vespid weapons ?

All I'm asking is that guys not given pulse weapons be allowed to carry a S3 Ap5 tau modified hellgun type weapon and let the squad have some body armor .
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Old 11 Jan 2008, 17:46   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: human helpers question

Likely because most humans are notoriously fickle creatures, and the Tau doesn't fully trust them not to rebel at some point just like they did with their Imperium, therefore doesn't wish to give them too much of an advantage if they did.

That's mainly the reason you don't see Gue'vesa forces rumbling around in battlesuits either (Gue'senshi excluded) - because that kind of responsibility and power wrapped into one handy package just isn't fit for an auxiliary race who's prone to greed, selfishness, and simple rebellion.

Besides, the Kroot haven't been upgraded all that much, really - opting instead to rely on their anti-technology standpoint in general. You don't see hordes of Kroot running around with 4+ saves do you?

Vespids, on the other hand, are unswervingly obedient to the Empire, physically incapable of rebellion and therefore can be trusted to always point their neutron blasters in the enemy's direction.

There's also the issue of supply. Lasguns and standard Imperium-type armor is likely much easier to manufacture that far out of Tau territory than say, a Pulse Rifle, as the facilities to manufacture Lasguns and Co. are likely already established.

That shouldn't stop you from making some home rules instead though, right?
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Old 11 Jan 2008, 17:56   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: human helpers question

Because the Tau don't have billions of Pulse Rifles lying around they can give to the humans. If they had that kind of manufacturing power, every soldier would wear a Crisis, Stealth, or Broadside Suit!
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Old 11 Jan 2008, 17:57   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: human helpers question

Can gue'vesa take a Rhino? Say they stole it from the Adeptus Arbites when they joined the Greater Good? Or maybe have gue'vesa cops that keep an eye on other gue'vesa...>.> I think I could go overboard, but I'll wait for these answers before asking more.
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Old 11 Jan 2008, 18:09   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: human helpers question

Actually Deus, the Tau can manufacture billions of Pulse Rifles if they wanted to.

The Crisis Battlesuit Configuration article on the Games Workshop website explains that the Tau Empire has the manufacturing power to equip every Fire Warrior in the Empire with XV8 armor, but the Aun choose not to equip them all due to the extreme power of the armor and increased responsibility required to pilot them - something not suitable for every Tau to experience due to the increased risk of developing battlesuit neurosis and other detrimental psychological effects.

It isn't a matter of industry, it's a matter of principal.

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Old 11 Jan 2008, 18:38   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: human helpers question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doombringer
Actually Deus, the Tau can manufacture billions of Pulse Rifles if they wanted to.

The Crisis Battlesuit Configuration article on the Games Workshop website explains that the Tau Empire has the manufacturing power to equip every Fire Warrior in the Empire with XV8 armor, but the Aun choose not to equip them all due to the extreme power of the armor and increased responsibility required to pilot them - something not suitable for every Tau to experience due to the increased risk of developing battlesuit neurosis and other detrimental psychological effects.

It isn't a matter of industry, it's a matter of principal.
From the article in question:

"Despite the Tau's prodigious industrial capacity there are never enough battlesuits to please the Shas'ar'tol."

Yes, the Ethereals do limit the production of battlesuits, but even if they didn't, the Tau still can't outfit everyone. The Tau do not have the excess resources to outfit all the auxiliaries.
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[center]Till shade is gone,
Till water is gone,
Into the Shadow with teeth bared,
Screaming defiance with the last breath,
To spit in Sightblinder's eye on the Last Day.

"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"

Learn to shorten your reach! If your foe can come close enough to negate your striking power, all stratagem is lost, and when all stratagem is lost, the battle is lost.

Tell me now, is there a man among you here, is there no one who will stand up and try to fight? Tell me man, is there not one in all your ranks, is there no one who values courage over life?
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Old 11 Jan 2008, 18:46   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: human helpers question

Well it could be that the Tau don't manufacture hellgun equivalents because the lasgun would be easier to produce and maintain. Besides the the Gue'vesa? are simply just based off of the normal IG statline. To upgrade them to stormtrooper equipment would require an upgrading of their pts cost, and between a 10pt FW and a 10pt stormtrooper I know what I'd choose.
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Old 11 Jan 2008, 20:04   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: human helpers question

Also, note that nothing stops you from converting a squad of Gue`vesa wearing carapace armour and Pulse Rifles, and just call them "Fire Warriors".

Reduced WS and I can be explained with lack of CC training, bulky weaponry, or whatnot.

I doubt anyone would complain.

The rules for the Gue`Vesa as-are represent not fully integrated, first-to-second generation Tau citizens, not fully integrated members of Tau society. The remains of the human regiments left behind in the Damocles Crusade a couple of hundred years ago are most probably already an integral part of the local society, and would receive their share of advanced weaponry.

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Old 12 Jan 2008, 00:06   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: human helpers question

Deus, you aren't looking at the paragraph in its entirety...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis Battlesuit Configurations Article
Despite the Tau's prodigious industrial capacity there are never enough battlesuits to please the Shas'ar'tol. The Ethereal caste is very aware of the trust that is implicit in the issuing of a battlesuit to a warrior. The battlesuit represents considerable power, and in wielding that power, warriors have been known to forget the greater good and become obsessed with their own needs and desires. The example of O'shovah is an extreme one, but milder cases of battlesuit neurosis are more common than is realised. It is for this reason that the Ethereal caste limits the supply of battlesuits to ensure they are only issued to those who have proven themselves worthy."
It has nothing to do with the Tau's industrial capacity.

Reading the paragraph as a whole conveys the meaning that "Despite the Tau's prodigious industrial capacity (which is more than capable of meeting the task), there are never enough battlesuits to please Shas'ar'tol because the Ethereals limit the supply of battlesuits to ensure they are only issued to those who have proven themselves worthy."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus
The Tau do not have the excess resources to outfit all the auxiliaries.
Excess resources? We're talking about a species that pumps out thousands of tons worth of drones on factory lines to perform the most menial of tasks. Hell, every single Pulse Rifle is wirelessly integrated into the Tau's battle network so the Shas'O in orbit can select any Shas'la on the battlefield and get a first-person view of their gun-cam...

They build tiny, micro-drones filled with anti-gravity generators to serve Kor'Os as mere microphones to send messages to the crew of the ship.

Talk about near meaningless.

The Tau, in terms of technology and industry, are so wasteful and flippant about things I fail to see where you've got the impression otherwise... There hasn't been a single mention anywhere of the Tau failing to meet any production goals, nor any Cadre that has truly been under-supplied out of necessity rather than Shas'ar'tol's choice.

Care to explain your viewpoint and how you came to believe it?
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Old 12 Jan 2008, 03:43   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: human helpers question

Quote:
"Despite the Tau's prodigious industrial capacity (which is more than capable of meeting the task), there are never enough battlesuits to please Shas'ar'tol because the Ethereals limit the supply of battlesuits to ensure they are only issued to those who have proven themselves worthy."
That's certainly not the only interpretation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis Battlesuit Configurations Article
Despite the Tau's prodigious industrial capacity there are never enough battlesuits to please the Shas'ar'tol. The Ethereal caste is very aware of the trust that is implicit in the issuing of a battlesuit to a warrior. The battlesuit represents considerable power, and in wielding that power, warriors have been known to forget the greater good and become obsessed with their own needs and desires. The example of O'shovah is an extreme one, but milder cases of battlesuit neurosis are more common than is realised. It is for this reason that the Ethereal caste limits the supply of battlesuits to ensure they are only issued to those who have proven themselves worthy."
Let's break down the two key points:

"Despite the Tau's prodigious industrial capacity there are never enough battlesuits to please the Shas'ar'tol." Or, quite simply, the Tau cannot build a Crisis suit for every soldier.

And then:

"It is for this reason that the Ethereal caste limits the supply of battlesuits to ensure they are only issued to those who have proven themselves worthy." As in, the Aun further limit the production of battlesuits so that they are only given to an elite few who can be trusted not to go mad with power. So instead of there being some battlesuits for promising and/or specially trained 'La to pilot, there are none.

Quote:
Care to explain your viewpoint and how you came to believe it?
That Fire Warriors only have Pulse Rifles and Carapace armor; that there are not legions of combat-drones deployed on battle fronts; that Kor battle fleets do not outnumber their enemies 10 to 1 in every engagement. That no auxiliary is entirely outfitted with Tau gear.

Quote:
We're talking about a species that pumps out thousands of tons worth of drones on factory lines to perform the most menial of tasks.
You're damn right they do! Why waste a perfectly useful thinking mind on menial drudgery when you have unintelligent machines to do it for you? It is significantly more efficient to have a dozens of drones under the oversight of a dozen Tau then a dozen Tau doing the work alone.

Quote:
There hasn't been a single mention anywhere of the Tau failing to meet any production goals
Maybe because they know their production limits and never set their goals beyond it?
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[center]Till shade is gone,
Till water is gone,
Into the Shadow with teeth bared,
Screaming defiance with the last breath,
To spit in Sightblinder's eye on the Last Day.

"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"

Learn to shorten your reach! If your foe can come close enough to negate your striking power, all stratagem is lost, and when all stratagem is lost, the battle is lost.

Tell me now, is there a man among you here, is there no one who will stand up and try to fight? Tell me man, is there not one in all your ranks, is there no one who values courage over life?
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