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Tau Valkyrie/Drop Troops Equivalent
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Old 02 Jan 2008, 20:49   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Tau Valkyrie/Drop Troops Equivalent

I really like Elysian Drop Troopers, with their Valkyries and such. The whole idea of an army arriving by the futuristic equivalent of helicopters to certain spots in the battlefield really appeals to me.

Except.

One: Drop Troopers aren't actually that good. I feel, as they are surgical strike troopers, they warrant better training and a BS of 4. Like Storm Troopers. Otherwise they just get dropped behind enemy lines and waft their lasguns about and do rubbishly. They don't even get the opportunity for more than one special weapon.

Two: Drop Troopers are expensive. Well, Valkyries are. In moneys. From Forge World. And I couldn't tie them into my fluff very well.

So, I thought, "why not make a Tau equivalent?"

Basically I figured I'd limit myself - only Fire Warriors and XV8s that Deep Strike (so no Fishes or Heads or Broadsides) - and design a Tau Valkyrie equivalent based on the Devilfish but with wings (I've got a few ideas of how to do it - I'd make the armour significantly thinner too) using the VDR.

And, using those things, I'd make a 1,000 point Tau strike force that I believe actually fits quite well into the Tau way of war. I'd just have some problems against things with AV14 all around, but people who field those in a 1,000pt battle are either Necrons or beardy (is there a difference? :P) and in 1,500 I could take a Tiger Shark bought with the cash I save from not buying an army of resin models with Valkyries =P

So - do people think that'd be powergaming? I'm not building it to win games, and I actually expect that if I get counter charged I'll be properly mulched and I won't actually win significantly more often... but what do you guys think? Would you be willing to play against that?
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Old 02 Jan 2008, 21:01   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Tau Valkyrie/Drop Troops Equivalent

I think its a fun idea!

Basically I don't think you can justify changing base skills, but you could certainly up the lack of firepower with perhaps your own custom flyer unit. I would be as legal as any other convertion and could provide that heavy support your army would need.

I would suggest making an elite heavy army though for this, because once your on the ground your going to need every little bit of firepower you can get.

However it's really up to you. I've built my Tau army (stealth orientated) so I don't need to build another. I suggest you stay with what you like, if you want multiple dropships, then do consider that the Devilfish is capable of orbital insertion, hence it is the standard dropship.

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Old 02 Jan 2008, 21:09   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau Valkyrie/Drop Troops Equivalent

You know I *would* go with an Orca, but they're even more expensive than Valkyries!

I wouldn't be changing base skills because while I lament the poor BS on the Elysians, that's because they're using lasguns. I am more than happy to remain with a BS3 pulse rifle =P

The dropships I would use would basically be Devilfish but with flyer rules and lighter armour (if I didn't give them lighter armour they'd be sickening). I'll VDR it in a sec and work out how much it'd cost.

I was thinking in terms of army composition two or three Fire Warrior squads in Dolphins (that's the tentative name for the flyer capable dropship Devilfish), a Shas'El with bodyguard and a couple of Crisis Teams, and Deep Strike the whole thing. It's a niche army - I'd have no first turn and be insanely maneuverable, but I'd quite likely get pasted after landing... I think it'd be great fun to play, though...

Update: With weaker armour it is 137pts, with Devilfish equivalent armour it is 152pts. The first is less than the cost of a Valkyrie and the second is more, so considering the VDR ups your points I reckon it's in the right area. I'm gonna draw up an army list for this and see what I can do. Until then!
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Originally Posted by Restayvien
Well I'd rather not play the game at all than play it like they did! :P
Crikey! This crazy clown causes commotion like the coming of Christ. Contained in a circle corrupted by crackheads and carnal cravings, he creates no concession to callous cheaters concentrating on nought but cock. Certainly, still a curious and cordial cavalier in the countenance of crazed cads, curs and creeps who condemn courtesy as something corny. No cloud could collapse his crushing crescendo of comical crowing and crimson coiffure. This conjecture on culture comes circumlocutive, consequently...

You may call me Circus.
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Old 02 Jan 2008, 21:34   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tau Valkyrie/Drop Troops Equivalent

Looks like an interesting idea. What colour scheme are you thinking of using?
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Old 02 Jan 2008, 21:40   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Tau Valkyrie/Drop Troops Equivalent

How would it look? The Dolphin I mean? And what about the fluff? Would they have grav-chutes? (My curiosity is piqued)
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Old 02 Jan 2008, 21:50   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Tau Valkyrie/Drop Troops Equivalent

Sounds interesting. You may want to consider a compliment of Seeker missiles and a marker drone with your fire warriors, because once you have deepstriked them they aren't likely to be moving much and that BS boast maybe what you are looking for.

Also you can make excellent scratch built conversions for marker drones based on the target lock section off an XV-8 kit and the rear of a plasma rifle and a pulse carbine (look on the hobby section of the forums if you want to follow that conversion, or you could make you own!).

I mean if all you've done is taken the Devilfish as it is, dropped some AV and given it flyer rules, then its not that complex (and actually more fluffy) and you would actually have to 'land' to drop your troops. But think of it this way, you have 2 or 3 pieces of terrain you can place almost as you wish.

Also I might steer away from the aquatic mammal name, as it would be a combat ship still hence a fish name should be required, perhaps Monkfish (however this is still down to you, Dolphin doesn't sound very errm 'aggressive' or 'imposing&#39...

I'd like to see how this comes along actually,
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Old 02 Jan 2008, 22:15   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau Valkyrie/Drop Troops Equivalent

Yeah, I know Dolphin is a mammal... it was the first thing that came to mind. I'll probably go with Dogfish, to be honest.

Here's my first list, at 1,000pts:
12 Fire Warriors w/ Shas'ui with Markerlight and Bonding knife, in a Dogfish
12 Fire Warriors w/ Shas'ui with Markerlight and Bonding knife, in a Dogfish
Shas'El with Plasma Rifle and Cyclic Ion Blaster, Vectored Retro Thrusters and HWMT
3 Crisis, w/ Shas'vre, Plasma Rifles, Missile Pods, MTs/HWMT, HW Blacksun and Targeting Array
1 Crisis, Shas'vre, Plasma Rifle, TL Missile Pod, HWMT and HW Blacksun

That's exactly 1,000pts. I used the Dogfish with Devilfish equivalent armour and dropped the points by 2 to 150 so it's a rounder figure. It's still acceptable flyer armour according to the VDR, it just seems less common going off the IA convention.

These are the only choices I will let myself choose from:
Shas'O/Shas'El
Crisis Teams
Fire Warriors
Dogfish
Barracuda
Tiger Shark

I'm thinking a name like "Airfire Coalition Strike Cadre." As for colour scheme, I'd probably do them in the same colours as my sept (black armour and cloth, bone helmets, red and white sept markings) but with black helmets and solely red sept markings.

For what I'll do to the devilfish, the answer is really not much! Using plasticard I think I'll extend the engines a bit at the back and make wings on the top and bottom that end together in a point. I'll attach a picture to try and show what I mean. It reminds me of the Republic Gunships in Star Wars!

And Tak'Ukos, cool as it would be to give them grav-chutes, I can give them these vehicles using the VDR so it's at least kinda legal, and I will have models to represent them - and people seem to respect that. If I just said "oh, these guys can Deep Strike" even if I paid an appropriate points cost, I expect people wouldn't be too happy!

Attached Images
File Type: jpg dogfish.jpg (66.9 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg dogfish.jpg (66.9 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg dogfish.jpg (66.9 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg dogfish.jpg (66.9 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg dogfish.jpg (66.9 KB, 42 views)
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Originally Posted by Restayvien
Well I'd rather not play the game at all than play it like they did! :P
Crikey! This crazy clown causes commotion like the coming of Christ. Contained in a circle corrupted by crackheads and carnal cravings, he creates no concession to callous cheaters concentrating on nought but cock. Certainly, still a curious and cordial cavalier in the countenance of crazed cads, curs and creeps who condemn courtesy as something corny. No cloud could collapse his crushing crescendo of comical crowing and crimson coiffure. This conjecture on culture comes circumlocutive, consequently...

You may call me Circus.
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Old 02 Jan 2008, 22:57   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Tau Valkyrie/Drop Troops Equivalent

I believe in the Orca Rules for 'rapid deployment' (In IA3) really dont need a physical Orca model to play out.

Rapid deployment simulated that really cool things that C-130s do, called a 'hot drop', I think: where the plane flys by 10 feet off the ground and a parachute pops out and yanks the tank/pallet out the rear, which skids to a stop. Pretty much exactly where the reciepents wanted it.

Only in the Orca, it does a somewhat slower pass over the battlefield, and everyone just hops out paratrooper style. Tanks and all.

If I recall the rules, you pick a straight line 3" wide from table edge to table edge any way you want, and place the contents of that Orca (an entire 2000 point force) however you want in whatever order, anywhere in that 3" wide line, maintaning unit coherency and all that.[that would be a really awesone rapid deployment scene just to watch, wouldnt it?]

There are of course Forgeworld Anti Aricraft units/rules that can totally ruin that Orca Drop's day, but then the same goes for Valkyries swooping in as well. But I think this would be exactly what you were looking for, regarding a Tau version of 'Drop Troops'. Good luck finding a hard copy of those rules, unless you own the $90 book, as I dont think its in the forgeworld rules .pdf either. But I know it exists, at the very least.
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Old 02 Jan 2008, 23:10   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau Valkyrie/Drop Troops Equivalent

I have IA3, I just read the rules, and that's seriously, seriously awesome. But I feel bad not using a real model, and people tend to have a greater respect for tactics that might be seen as "beardy" if you look pretty while you do it. It tempts me, but at £275 I can't justify it.

I really love Rapid Deployment though =P I might have to work out how much points it should cost (via comparisons with the VDR and other Tau vehicles) and give it as an option to Dogfish squads, representing parachute type things...
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Originally Posted by Restayvien
Well I'd rather not play the game at all than play it like they did! :P
Crikey! This crazy clown causes commotion like the coming of Christ. Contained in a circle corrupted by crackheads and carnal cravings, he creates no concession to callous cheaters concentrating on nought but cock. Certainly, still a curious and cordial cavalier in the countenance of crazed cads, curs and creeps who condemn courtesy as something corny. No cloud could collapse his crushing crescendo of comical crowing and crimson coiffure. This conjecture on culture comes circumlocutive, consequently...

You may call me Circus.
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Old 03 Jan 2008, 11:20   #10 (permalink)
Kai
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Default Re: Tau Valkyrie/Drop Troops Equivalent

There is a better (imo, Tom Norman disagrees) Elysian list in IA4. They're all vets, they basically gain Chem inhalers and Preferred Enamy Tyranids, better weapon options and the fact you can field them as armoured fist squads (which means you only need about 3 valks to make a legal list). The best use is to strafe the living hell out of the target before deploying your troops to claim objectives late game.

Seriously, try looking at the d-99 (the one from IA4) list before you make this decision. It certainly makes Elysians alot more affordable money wise
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