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Can't Find A Use For Pathfinders!
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Old 03 Apr 2005, 23:08   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Can't Find A Use For Pathfinders!

Ok, as the subject stated, I cant find a use for the pathfinders. The reason why is they must be taken in squads of 4-8, they must be given a DF, and they dont have good range with thier weapons.

Altough, I do like the idea of the markerlights/seeker missle combo, as that does take out SM which are usualy harder to kill. Pluss the Rail Rifle is pretty cool too. I think the only downside to the RR is HEAVY 1. I think for me to even think about using the PF again is:
a. Have a BS of 4
b. RR will be heavy 2 (or even assult 1) or
c. Loose the DF and gain the ability to Infiltrate.

I think that these things would make them a better option.

What are your thoughts on PF?
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Old 03 Apr 2005, 23:10   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Can't Find A Use For Pathfinders!

that would make them better, and they arent the best unit in the list, but theyre not that bad, they do work.

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Old 03 Apr 2005, 23:42   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Can't Find A Use For Pathfinders!

You could use them as Cannon Fodder ;D

Thats I how they end up by turn 2 in most games I see

Although I would MUCH rather spend tose 200 points on a HH, CS, SS or something else you need

For that amount of points THEY CANT KILL WORTH c**p. Three Fireknife Crisis Suits can punch out a LOT more firepower and are a LOT stronger in assualts

Same for stealths and HH
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Old 03 Apr 2005, 23:48   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Can't Find A Use For Pathfinders!

you miss the point, PF arent supposed to kill things, they ML its what theyre there for, theyre a utility and support unit not an MBU.

ML guided weapons ignore cover (utility) and hit on 2+(uility), seekers and RR are Augmetic, they add to the unit, but the purpose remains the same, support.

(not to mention they bring another skimmer hull, which just adds to the target saturation stretching enemy AT even further.)
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Old 04 Apr 2005, 01:06   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Can't Find A Use For Pathfinders!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AvalonSurfer739
For that amount of points THEY CANT KILL WORTH c**p. Three Fireknife Crisis Suits can punch out a LOT more firepower and are a LOT stronger in assualts

Interesting opinion. However, I contend that it is false. Lets compare 8 Pathfinders with their Devilfish (Multitracker, Decoy) plus 20 Seekers (391 pts) with 6 Fireknife Crisis Suits (390 pts) firing at a squad of Marines in 4+ cover.

Over the course of 6 turns, the Fireknife suits will kill 17.5 Marines.

8 Pathfinders will be able to launch their 20 Seekers over 5 turns generating 13.9 Marine kills. Add in the firepower from the Devilfish for 6 turns and we get an additional 3.3 kills. This gives us a total of 17.2 Marine kills.



As others have said, Pathfinders are really a support unit... they help other units perform better. However, as we see here, even on their own in this artificial example, they are comparable to Fireknives. Not to mention the fact that this unit of Pathfinders with a compliment of Seekers is better suited to targeting vehicles, multi-wound models (attack bikes, characters), etc and can do so from farther away.

The true advantage of Pathfinders as a Seeker launch team is the fact that all of their kills are front-loaded. By getting 6-7 kills (some perhaps against vehicles!) in the first 2 turns, you can cripple an opponent's ability to hurt you later in the game. A Crisis Suit is the ultimate "damage over time" unit... perhaps only killing one Marine each turn, but doing so reliably for the entire game. However, in the game of Warhammer, a kill on turn 1 is worth a lot more than a kill on turn 6, thus vastly increasing the value Pathfinders.
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Old 04 Apr 2005, 01:20   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Can't Find A Use For Pathfinders!

i agree, PF are very much a support unit but they can ve very offensive with things like seeker missiles and rail rifles. however there are only 8 of them so they might not be so good for inexperienced players.
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Old 04 Apr 2005, 02:57   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Can't Find A Use For Pathfinders!

I have found that Pathfinders are most useful when they're backing up a low number of suits with a high number of weapons as well as backing up a higher number of broadsides, rather than Hammerheads. Low suit counts have better odds with their guns when using lights, so it becomes very useful in that case.

Pathfinders also couple very well with stealthsuits in that sense.

You do not see Pathfinders so often in a more mobilized list, even though they are mobile, simply because of their delicate nature sitting still to use their lights, while other units are moving.

So in my opinion, Pathfinders won't just fit into your play style unless it favors them and the units you're using. So unless you play a generally static list with a low suit count and larger amount of broadsides or a lot of stealth suits, then perhaps you are not going to see such a benefit from your Pathfinders in your game play.

Using pathfinders in an offensive manner, firing seeker missiles is a far more expensive and risky way to use them, and you may find them not worth it when your opponents gun them down very quickly knowing they fire seekermissiles (rendering those seeker missiles useless if they haven't been fired yet). As a support unit with lights, they're not killing anything and get ignored more often. Fire a few seekers and blow something up or kill a few marines, and a few guns will take attention to them.

It all comes down to play style really.

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Old 04 Apr 2005, 03:03   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Can't Find A Use For Pathfinders!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalVeauX
So unless you play a generally static list with a low suit count and larger amount of broadsides or a lot of stealth suits, then perhaps you are not going to see such a benefit from your Pathfinders in your game play.
I'd have to disagree I'd say PF fit better into mech as you have more units in the enemies face taking their attention off the PF.

however I do agree they work well with Stealths and Crisis (however vs non-Meq nothing is beter than ML sub )
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Old 04 Apr 2005, 06:35   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Can't Find A Use For Pathfinders!

It's funny how amongst the more vocal members on TO PFs have become much more popular over the past few months. I'll admit, when I started out with Tau I thought they were way over priced for their capabilities - however upon reflection I came to realize the same thing that's been voiced over and over again: They're a support unit - they don't kill things themselves, they make other units better. Hitting on 2+ while ignoring cover is nothing to sneeze at: They can turn stealth suits into absolute killing machines and can greatly increase the chances of taking out vehicles (particularly squads) in turn 1.

I still don't like the mandatory DF but have found that it can be useful - after dropping off the PF during the pregame move it can head off to harass units, block charges, draw fire, or tank shock edge huggers. I just wish I didn't have to buy it b/c it makes it almost impossible to afford PFs in sub-1500 pt games.

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Old 04 Apr 2005, 06:45   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Can't Find A Use For Pathfinders!

same, it does seem that way pepper :P

yeah, the fish is a bit of a crutch, but it has its uses, I've done up a concept list for PF in 1k but I couldnt afford stealths so it will be a bit of a tossup.
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