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anything anyone would like to see in 5th ed.
Old 15 Dec 2007, 08:04   #1 (permalink)
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Default anything anyone would like to see in 5th ed.

i know there have been a lot of posts lately about what people think will be in the 5th edition tau codex and stuff like that... well, maybe not that many

I'm opening this up to whatever people want to see in the next codex.
now, keep in mind that if you suggest something absolutely absurd, you will probably be berated by someone who has been playing tau a lot longer, and thinks they know everything. however, do not let this discourage you, because this post is all about what you want to see.

i, for one would like to see battlesuits with BS 4.
to me it just makes sense, what with all the advanced targeting equipment that must be in a battlesuit. this would probably mean removing the targeting array as an option...
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Old 15 Dec 2007, 08:30   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: anything anyone would like to see in 5th ed.

There's already a topic about this, why make another one?

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Old 15 Dec 2007, 09:15   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: anything anyone would like to see in 5th ed.

Originally Posted by Sidstyler
There's already a topic about this, why make another one?

Slight difference in subject. The previous topic was asking about what we thought actually would be in a 5th edition Tau codex, while this one is asking the question of what we would personally like to see in it.

To get the ball rolling, I would like to see either:

a) Some new special characters, with decent rules/fluff.


b) The current special characters, with decent rules/fluff.

And Aun'Shi, obviously. :P
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Old 15 Dec 2007, 09:28   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: anything anyone would like to see in 5th ed.

Make Ethereals less useless...
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Old 15 Dec 2007, 09:51   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: anything anyone would like to see in 5th ed.

Originally Posted by GIR
i, for one would like to see battlesuits with BS 4.
to me it just makes sense, what with all the advanced targeting equipment that must be in a battlesuit. this would probably mean removing the targeting array as an option...
won't happen. if they're bs4, there is no real point for having markerlights. and then every suit will be a fireknife. as is now, they are balanced by not being able to do everything. you either go with dakka, or sacrafice it and go with accuracy. its fair.

To what i want in the next codex:

and for those who are lazy:

So, how it works:
army list.
special characters.
wargear stuff.
new fluff. and short stories.

Army list. to save time and because i'm lazy, i wont post stats where they are the same as the tau codex. I'll just say as per codex. if there are one or two changes, it'll read as per codex, but toughness increased to 4, for example. points costs are my own, and will follow the same rules.


Tau commanders.
Stats - as per codex.
Price cost.
Shas'el. 70.
Shas'o. 90.

Equipment - XV8c battlesuit. all other options are identical. Must select 3 battlesuit weapons, or support systems.
Independent character.
XV8c battlesuit. its a command version of the regular XV8. It has increased comm relays, as well as other safety features for the greatest tau warriors. as such, it counts as having an integrated command node, and ejection system. XV8c suits can be further modifed with equipment from the commander specific wargear, and hardwired wargear.

Etherial.As per codex, except the LOS restriction on inspiring presence is removed.

Honour Guards.
Honour guards are the chosen warriors sworn to protect the tau leaders. THey may be long time friends, or bonded to them through the ta'lissera rights. they do not take up a slot on the FOC.

*Fire Warrior Honour Guard for Etherials. As per codex.

*Crisis Suit Honour Guard for Shas'el/o. As per XV8 bodyguard team, except Bs is increased to 4, and points cost is increased to 45 each. All other options are identical.


XV8 crisis battlesuit team. As per codex. shas'vre and team leaders may take items from the hard wired wargear section

XV15/25 stealth team. As per codex, except they have the behind enemy lines special rule. (its either that or points reduction to 25pts. they're too bloody overpriced) oh, and XV15 models make a return.


Fire Warrior team. As per codex.
New option though: allow a full sized squad of fire warriors (ie 12 man) to buy a sniper drone team (dude with net. m/light + 3 sniper drones) as additional support for +80pts. Its deployed at the same time as the troops squad, takes up no FOC slot, is non scoring and counts as, and is used as a seperate unit. (think IG command squad attached heavy weapons squads...)
Devilfish transport: options change. Allow it to upgrade gun drone to twin burst cannons for +10pts. (universal secondary weapons systems) or a pair of networked markerlights at +30pts.

Kroot. As per codex.

Fast Attack:

Gun Drones. As per codex.

Stats: As per codex.
Cost. 18pts each. squad size 4-8. Shas'ui upgrade +12pts.
Equipment: Pulse carbines with integrated markerlights, photon grenades, emp grenades.
Mandatory devilfish is removed.

Special rules.
masters of battlefield positioning. count as having the stealth special rule.
Co-ordinate deployment. Pathfinders are the eyes and ears of a cadre, pulling it forward to battle. they're in the field for days at a time, scoping out enemy positions, firing lanes, movements etc and relaying this information back to better help the cadre. To represent this, for every full pathfinder team in a tau army, one unit may be held back from normal deployment. It is then deployed after all fast attack choices have been places, but before infiltrators. usual restictions apply (ie in escalation, you cant put on a unit that would not be allowed onto the field in the first place, like a hammerhead)
Co-ordinate movement. units deepstriking to a point visible to the pathfinders may re-roll the scatter dice.

Pirahna. As per codex, except points cost reduced to 50.

Points cost 20pts.
(points go up for the upgunned neutron blaster (assault 2, 12")
Otherwise, as per codex.

Heavy Support:

Hammerhead. As per codex.

Broadside. As per codex.

Skyray. As per codex, except seeker missiles increased to 8.

No more sniper drones. they're stupid.

__________________________________________________ _________________________________

Special Characters:

The Outcast. Commander Farsight.
As per codex, but he counts as the necessary commander for a farsight enclaves list.


The Warrior. Commander Fury.
his story in a nutshell. the nids eat Falshia. he stops them. against all the odds. and becomes a hero. he's the blood and guts commander, and exists to soak the tau up to their necks in their own blood (pure old school 40k.)

Points WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
200 3 5 5 4(5) 4 3 3 10 2+

Counts as the obligatory tau fire warrior commander
Equipment: XV8c crisis battlesuit with integrated ejection system and command node, plasma rifle, fusion blaster, r'myr shield generator, enhanced exoskeleton, iridium armour.

Special Rules:
Grim and unyielding. Such is Fury's legendary stand against the tyranids, those near him are inspired to be as fearless (and reckless) as him. Models within his command node range are fearless.
You Shall Not Pass. Fury counts as having preferred enemy: tyranids.


The Legend. Aun'shi
his story. cool etherial. everyone loves him. made his name at fio'vash. Now he's on his way to the Perdus rify to investigate the farsight enclaves. put in fluff as to some things he's seen, done, discovered.

Points WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
105 5 0 3(5) 3 2 4 4 10 -

Equipment: the honour of fio'vash. given to him as an honourary symbol of his heroic defence of fio'vash, this weapon counts as an honour blade with the rending special rule, and contains an integral r'myr generator.

Special Rules:
Independant character. unless he joins a unit, he counts as being an independant character.

Parry. Aun'shi may sacrafice 1 of his attacks, to reduce the attacks of one opponent in b2b contact with him, by 1. he may do not reduce his, or their attacks below 1.

Fearless. Aun'shi, and any unit he leads, counts as being fearless.

Honour Guard. A very special honour guard travels with aun'shi. they are the survivors of fio'vash, and have sworn to serve him until their dying day. He may select this honour guard as his personal retinue, and they count as a single unit.

honour guard stats:
Points. WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
15 2 4 3 3 1 3 2 10 4+

Team: the team consists of 5-10 fire warriors.
Equipment: pulse rifles, photon grenades. emp grenades.
As long as Aun'shi is alove, the squad doesnt count as below half strength, for the purpose of victory points, and scoring oblectives.
All other options- as per codex.
Essentially, they're a FW honour guard, that has, added to their profile, the old shas'aun'shi special rules (+1i, +1A, never count as below half strength)


The Maverick. The Medusa V famous commander. Was it Brightsword? Or Darksword? Or something...
Brightsword is the embodiment of the tau, with a focus on the tau'va and the new-ness of tau technology. he is the successor to shadowsun who tragically died at the hands of a cockroach ;D and exists to fulfill the "new" and "future-y" niche of the tau.

Points WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
175 4 5 4 3 3 4 4 10 3+

COunts as the 1+ tau commander.
Equipment: XV221 battlesuit with integrated command node, shield generator, 2 plasma rifles, HW advanced multi tracker, HW advanced target lock, advanced jetpack
Unit type: Brightsword counts as a jetbike for movement purposes (12"/6") though he may not turboboost.

Put in fluff about the xv221. its the successor to the xv22. those who used the xv22 found it extremely lacking, and the 221 takes all that was learned, and tries to fix it, and represents the next evolutionary leap forward for the tau technology.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________

Wargear stuff:

Battlesuit weapons: as per codex, except plasma rifles are 18pts. (60pt fireknives is a nice number!)

Battlesuit support systems: as per codex, with the following changes. Positional relay costs 35pts and adds +1 to reserve rolls (ie turn two, reserves arrive on a 3+)

Hardwired wargear:HW BSF, HW drone controller, HW multi tracker, HW target lock as per codex.

Commander wargear.
Integrated command node. All units with a model within 12" of the commander may use his Ld for leadership, pinning, and morale checks (its the one thing from shadowsun i want to keep, and is somewhere between rites of battle, and the IG officer ld bubble)
Integrated ejection system. as per codex.
Iridium armour: 25pts. 2+ save. 6" move in assault phase.
enhanced exoskeleton.. 25pts. adds +1T to the commander, but the original toughness counts for instant kill weapons.
Advanced Multi tracker. 25pts. allows a commander to select two of the same weapons (eg two plasma rifles) and fire them simultaneously (2 missile pods would allow 4 shots a turn)
Advanced Target Lock. 15pts. allows a commander to fire his own weapons at different targets.

Special things - not in the armoury, but given to aun'shi and Fury.
R'myr generator. a more powerful version of the standard shield generator, made famous by its use from Shas'o r'myr. Its expensive to make in terms of materials, labour, and constant maintenance is necessary. As such its only entrusted to the most revered and famous tau figures (ie not your local tau shas'el or shas'o!) Hell, Brightsword doesnt even have one. ;D It generates a 4+ inv. save to ranged weapons, and a 3+ inv. save in close combat.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________

On fluff:
the fluff was the most disappointing thing in the new codex. it was either regurgiated, or the cool stuff reduced to a mere few lines (damocles) and fanboy tripe (aun'va, shadowsun, third sphere expansion) taking over, so i propose some changes. Some things i know how to write, and some things, help would be cool.

keep the stuff up to page 10. thats fine. the tau and humanity section needs to be explored in more depth, with more emphasis on damocles as a huge war. tau art of war is fine. the victories of the tau need to be explored in greater depth, especially damocles, and the thir sphere wars. as they are, they are really dodgy, and add nothing. the stuff on the aliens is OK. More on sept worlds and language. tau military organisation is pretty OK.
what i want is a short story (i have it planned) exploring life in the battle academy. i have a plan for a story with a young shas'saal coming in from active training to a lecture. just shed some light on how they're taught, who teaches them, the things they do, and learn etc, because its a big, black hole in the fire caste fluff that we know nothing about.
And of course. Fury's story. What i have is merely a cross between macragge and iyanden, and needs to be done up properly. it does have a cool Fury moment.

Last thing. And most importantly. A note on the future, with a short story. I want Fury's legacy to not be himself, or his legend, or the great heroes who stumbled out of the wreckage of a nice world. It will be the aftermath. He almost goes down the road of Farsight. He says things like "those races who pose a threat to us should be destroyed without qualms. we already lay waste to the ores'la and the y'he. The gue'la and others are too much of a risk to us. they too should perish." Show a dark side to the tau, and show the ruthless, bloodthirsty and highly aggressive nature of some fire warrior commanders.
And have the scope for hope with a short story along the following lines.
2 etherials having an honour duel at the high etherial chambers. One says things like
"we live in a grim, cruel and ruthless galaxy. We are assaulted on all sides by enemies. Our future is not certain. THe tau'va is a great ideal, that we should strive to live by, but we can't reconsile it with the cold hard realities of this galaxy. We must be more ruthless to survive".
And his opponent says "Aun'O wha'tev'er is right when he says we live in a grim, cruel, and ruthless galaxy. But he is wrong to suggest we should turn from the light and embrace the dark! It is precisely because the galaxy is so grim, cruel, and ruthless that the tau'va is even more important. We shine the light to all the other races. Within our realms there is peace, prosperity, and progress. That shows the righteousness of the tau'va, and it is our duty to bright that light to the dark beyond our borders" And then they fight, and the story ends... ;D
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Old 15 Dec 2007, 10:42   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: anything anyone would like to see in 5th ed.

Well, i would like to see some of the Forgeworld Hammerhead main weapon options make it in there, like the twin-linked plasma rifle, long barreled burst cannon and even the fusion blaster, so i don't have to ask permission of my opponent every time i want to use them. I know they have less range or worse AP then the railgun, but i don't really care.

And while we're dreaming , why not a the Apocalipse-like command tank
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Old 15 Dec 2007, 12:23   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: anything anyone would like to see in 5th ed.

More options for vespid to make it worthwhile taking them.
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Old 15 Dec 2007, 13:27   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: anything anyone would like to see in 5th ed.

Iridium armour: 25pts. 2+ save. 6" move in assault phase.
enhanced exoskeleton: 25pts. adds +1T to the commander, but the original toughness counts for instant kill weapons.
Advanced Multi tracker: 25pts. allows a commander to select two of the same weapons (eg two plasma rifles) and fire them simultaneously (2 missile pods would allow 4 shots a turn)
What madness is this!

The whole point about Iridium armour is you get a good save for a lack of mobility. It flys in the face of use. I would hate it for the TAu to go down this route, I like them to have the triangle offset of abilities. Give them something like that and how quickly are we going to see Tau commanders becoming one man armies?

Multitrackers allowing 4 autocannon like shots a turn at a possible BS 4!!! Just take a moment, the IG are the people fielding such units of heavy firepower, weapons are twinlinked for a reason to prevent doubles becoming overly powerful. Would Tau players start complaning when that storm bolter on a chimera fires 4 bolter rounds a turn. More than a heavy bolter. No I think this is fanciful and rather beady.

Mindyou, I certainly agree with the exoskeleton upgrade, it would be nice to see crisis suits be able to stall attacks even if they can't give out damage.

To add to this. Flamers. Make an upgrade for them Thermite Flamers or Plasma Flamers which get a massive bonus to AP and perhaps S5. Basically an Anti-MEQ flamthrower. It would bring the flamer back into use and force commanders to be more aggressive with their weapons.

A points increase for the Missilepod, lets all agree its a good weapon, however I find it distasteful to use, because basically I have an autocannon that can fire and move 12" a turn. Other armies may have to pay through the nose to get such a weapon, hence I think the Tau should have to pay slightly more by about 2pts to 4pts.

Stealth Generators for Firewarriors. Perhaps at 20pts and requires the unit to stay put, but it would allow Firewarrior units to deny shooting attacks at them. Remember that a static Tau line can often be out shot by other armies. IG and Marines are noticeable. Hence it would be nice to get that feeling back that Grunts do make an army.

ONE close combat weapon SYSTEM for Firewarriors, we are not talking a weapon as such but something that would make assaulting Firewarriors much more risky. Perhaps an option to drop a mine, or small blast weapon if the unit falls back from combat, a bit like the Detonator on the XV8 or perhaps something different entirely.

Shas'Os to lose an attack and Aun to have more access to nice stuff. Perhaps access to a command armory that allows small generic boasts across the entire army for a relatively large cost. Perhaps emulating the IGs doctrine system. For instance for a small cost all Firewarriors lose 1 point of save for an initial scout move at 20pts. Representing the ability for the Aun to organise a battlefield deployment with respect to what he/she believes the enemy might do (Psychology).

Finally Tetras should be added to 'replace' Skyrays. Like the Space Marines have their Whirlwind, the Tau should have their Skyray, give some AFP seekers or Fusion seekers for dealing with tanks or hordes and you now have a dedicated out of LOS artillery platform.

Also all drone options should be interchangeable;
-Command and Control

Basically any unit or vehicle could take any drone at its respective cost. So you could have your hammerhead replacing 'sponsons' for Railrilfe shots, or networked markerlights. Additionally Repair drones could keep a squad or battlesuit or vehicle in the fight longer.

Anyhow some of my thoughts...

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Old 15 Dec 2007, 14:27   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: anything anyone would like to see in 5th ed.

...there's 3 topics...one is what we want, another is what we think games workshop will do, and now this...but, I guess I'll go bring my hopes over here...
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Old 15 Dec 2007, 14:54   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: anything anyone would like to see in 5th ed.

It would be cool if we got the O'kais model in UK and US stores and even cooler if they made him a new commander in the 5th ed. (or if they made a commander like him, the model is soooo cool ;D).
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