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Multiple FOCs to get lots of Monats...
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Old 08 Dec 2007, 06:18   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Multiple FOCs to get lots of Monats...

I love Monat units. Crisis suits, Broadsides, Piranhas... I love not worrying about "crew stunned" or "coherancy" or "last man standing" or "can't regroup because you're less than half strength".

Using multiple FOCs to get lots of Monat units... This seems legitimate to me, although I don't have my rulebook.

Generally, my problems come where there are Monats available, Elite and Heavy Support mainly. I like having a couple stealthsuit/gundrone teams, instead of FW/devilfishies, and I like some specialized crisis suits, like a Shas'Vre carrying a ABFG. Doesn't leave room for the Fireknife squad, which I wish was the three Fireknife Monats...

I get the same issue with Broadsides. Broadside Monats:
-don't need target locks to engage multiple targets,
-don't have a squad inflicting multiple killshots on a vehicle,
-have multiple chances at making target priority rolls,
-avoid losing more than one suit from attacks by heavy weapons squads,
-can be split to cover more area.

Downsides to Monats: Apocalypse has a strategem where all single model units are struck by an armor penetrating shot at the start of the game. Awfully bogus rule.

Anyways, seems legit and lots of advantages, unless you're playing Apocalypse, where Tau seemed to be forgotten anyways.
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Old 08 Dec 2007, 09:39   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Multiple FOCs to get lots of Monats...

Um...what? You very obviously don't have your rulebook on you. Call me drunk but you just got a one way ticket on the 'I'm trying to abuse the rules' railway.

Multiple FOCs don't exist anymore. The concept died out after 3rd edition. Even then, it was rare at best. During an normal game if someone tried to convince me of multiple FOCs they would probably never play me again. Yeah buddy... I'll play your six Hammerheads, Four Commanders, and four minimized Firewarrior squads... Fun.

What you are loving about Monat rules is their ability to ignore a great deal of negatives that units face. And that's why we have the FOC. So people cannot take a ton of these units. My mind is simply blown that you would propose to eliminate it (during normal games) so you can abuse the rules a bit more. The FOC is there for a reason.

Apoc doesn't have an FOC. But have fun finding opponents after you tell them, every Crisis suit is a monat...

Bottom Line... SO illegitimate it actually make me nauseous.
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Old 08 Dec 2007, 10:05   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Multiple FOCs to get lots of Monats...

Get the rulebook. Please. Multiple FOC's do still exist I guess, but generally you shouldn't be using multiples until you hit the 2500+ Points mark where you're basically filling a single FOC completely. But trying to take multiple FOC's just for the same of min-maxing squads is awefully powergamer-like to me. Please don't do it. Sure it's advantageous to take Monats normally if you have a low number of Crisis Suits, but this is a bit... silly.
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Old 08 Dec 2007, 18:59   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Multiple FOCs to get lots of Monats...

So this is legit, just abusive of the rules and possibly silly?

Quote:
Multiple FOCs don't exist anymore. The concept died out after 3rd edition.
Quote:
Multiple FOC's do still exist I guess...
Seems like some contention here. I'm certain it's possible, .mace grudgingly supports me on this, in letter if not spirit, Exokan disapproves of the whole concept to the point that he's sure it's illegal.

I'm not understanding the problem, I'm afraid. It's a Tau army allied with... a Tau army. It appears to be allowable within the rules, and required for huge point games anyways.

Quote:
Apoc doesn't have an FOC. But have fun finding opponents after you tell them, every Crisis suit is a monat...
Monats are definitely allowed, so why not break every unit into Monats for an Apocalypse game where no FOC is used? Because opponents don't like it? What if they don't like your rail cannons because they blow up his Land Raiders?

What I have in larger games is two static Fire Warrior squads with markerdrones, two devilfished Fire Warrior squads, and two Shas'o. I max out on HQ, Elite, Fast Attack, Heavy Support slots. I don't take as many troops because: they die, they're weak, and they're less efficient than stealthsuits. Generally, I use two elite slots for stealthsuit teams, and one for a Monat Crisis suit equipped with a ABFG and flamers that I deep strike near enemy heavy weapons teams.

What I want to add is Fireknives, but not so much I'm wanting to give up the stealth teams. And Monat Fireknives can be made team leaders, allowing the creation of a Fireknife with PR, MP, TA, and HWMT, which is more efficient than a basic PR, MP, MT suit.

This is "powergaming"? My army isn't like this:

Quote:
I'll play your six Hammerheads, Four Commanders, and four minimized Firewarrior squads...
The potential for "powergaming" certainly exists using multiple FOCs, but:
a. Powergaming is still legit.
b. You CAN use multiple FOCs to gain advantages without powergaming.
c. This isn't limited to Tau armies only. Nothing prevents a marine player from adding some IG to get Basilisks.

Actually, you have an interesting point with your Tau powergamer army, Exokan. One could legitmately take four Shas'O's, one with vectored retro thrusters, Farsight, and two basic commanders to create a reasonable assault force while negating the disadvantages of Farsight...
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Old 08 Dec 2007, 21:13   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Multiple FOCs to get lots of Monats...

Multiple FOC is in the rule book but it is only a suggestion that you have to talk to your opponent about before the game. It's not actually a rule of any sorts, just a suggestion to get around the hump of being restricted by one FOC in large pt battles.

Of course we now have Apocalypse to cover large pt battles, making that suggestion all but useless. If you like using multiple FOC charts in small games discuss it with your opponent, if they don't agree, then too bad. But on that note, why not just ask your opponent if they just want to do away with the whole FOC just like in Apocalypse. It might actually be fun, but it's by no means a normal 40k game :-\.

Personally I just don't use that many suits (of any type) so it's never been a problem. Why not just try using 2 man teams? See if it works out okay or not.
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