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Krootoxen: waste or worthwhile
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Old 30 Mar 2005, 22:24   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Krootoxen: waste or worthwhile

I'm considering taking some Krootoxen in a squad, but I'm not sure if they're worth it. The new v4 rappid fire rules make then enticing, plus the increased wound pool, higher toughness, stronger rapid fire weapon, etc.

Any thoughts?

I kinda like the idea of having a couple just for the Krootgun, but I don't know.. .I'm sure this has been hashed and rehashed, but I don't know if it's been discussed in terms of v4 exclusively or not. I have a Mechanized heavy list with two units of 15 Kroot and 6 Stealth for infiltration power as it is.

Diz mentioned that the addition of Krotox negates the Infiltration ability...I dont' recall that. True?
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Old 30 Mar 2005, 22:29   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Krootoxen: waste or worthwhile

Quote:
Originally Posted by AunLa
Diz mentioned that the addition of Krotox negates the Infiltration ability...I dont' recall that. True?
Yes, in the codex, it says it under the krootox. Thats the main reason why I dont like them. It makes me actually have to move them. Not to mention, i would much rather spend my points on hammerheads and broadsides. I say No.

But what are the rapid fire ranges for the Krootox gun? Is is 12" or 24"?
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Old 30 Mar 2005, 22:32   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Krootoxen: waste or worthwhile

true. (in the kroot entry under infiltrate)

not to mention that they cost 7 PTs less than a Dethrain suit which has none of the disadvantages, and with infiltrate gone kroot will have a real hard time as they will be in serious danger if they attempt to move (not to mention majority toughness rules)

I'm just not seein too many benefits besides the cool model in the kroot squad ^-^

RF is always 12"
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Old 30 Mar 2005, 22:46   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Krootoxen: waste or worthwhile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy
RF is always 12"
Long range is, what? 36"?

Somehow I remember the statts being like an Autocannon but rapidfire instead of HVY2.

Yea, if they negate the Infiltrate then they suck on ice. Didn't know that.

You can tell I've really done my research.... ;D
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Old 30 Mar 2005, 22:53   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Krootoxen: waste or worthwhile

kroot gun is S7 AP4 48" RF for reference

and suck on ice is an apt description ^-^
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Old 30 Mar 2005, 22:56   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Krootoxen: waste or worthwhile

I would consider using the Krootox if they were Assult 2 or something, and th ey allowed infiltrate, but sinse they dont, then they do "suck ice"!
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Old 30 Mar 2005, 22:56   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Krootoxen: waste or worthwhile

Alright I'm over it now. (lol)

Why oh why didnt' GW jsut make all these different sorts of Krootiness just unit upgrades like Meltaguns and Vet Sgts? Eating up Fast and Heavy slots with carpy units that do little to help out the greater good shouldn't even be there...honestly...

...fire that guy!

:
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3) Tau are a team: Stick together.

[size=8pt]40k v4.0 FAQs[/size]
[size=8pt]official Rail Rifle rules[/size]
[size=8pt]Forge World Rules and Models[/size]
[size=8pt]Crisis Configurations[/size]
[size=8pt]Gue'vesa: Tau Human Auxiliary rules[/size]
[size=8pt]Mechanized Tau Tactica[/size]
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Old 30 Mar 2005, 22:58   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Krootoxen: waste or worthwhile

thy'd be fine at 45pts and still infiltrate :

we have vet sarges ^-^, overcosted ones, but meltaguns would be oh so good ^-^
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Old 30 Mar 2005, 23:38   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Krootoxen: waste or worthwhile

Here's how I see Krootox:

Krootox come in packs of 3, and are attached immediately to a Troop selection of Kroot. They do not infiltrate and cost a lot, but bring you three rapidfire autocannon type weapons to the board, but do so with BS3. What is the point of this? The only point really is to add firepower to a Kroot squad, beyond the simple Kroot Rifle. Is this good? Well, not really when we consider that we have Crisis suits and Broadsides that also have compariable range and weaponry for comparible prices. However, they're there for people who want to take a few heavy weapons (though they're rapid fire) buried within a thick squad of Kroot. So let's take a little bit of time to see what's are some good aspects of a Krootox and some of the bad aspects too.

Pros of a Krootox as a Heavy Support:
  • Long range weapon
  • Solid strength gun
  • Solid strength close combat attack
  • Multiple shots on the Kroot Gun
  • Multiple Krootox can be in a single squad (3)
  • Multiple wounds
  • Up to 3 (or 9 maximum) Kroot Gun can be buried in 20 Kroot and hounds

Cons of a Krootox as a Heavy Support:
  • Rapidfire, if they move, the range is dwarfed to 12 inches
  • Required to be attached to Troops, losing two Force Organization Chart slots for a single unit
  • Very expensive
  • Not resilient at all
  • Average BS means we get half the shots of our weapon for the high price
  • No infiltration
  • Cannot move and fire at long range

What does this do for us then? Well, here's the simple answer in a nutshell:
  • Krootox were created as an alternative choice to having a heavy Broadside of Hammerhead as the only choices for Heavy Support in currently Tau 40k armies. The Krootox is the "off" unit that most codicies have at least one of, to allow for an altnerative themed army to be created with. The idea is to be able to create a Tau army with as little "Tau" in it as possible, but focus more on the Kroot. So we had lists of Commanders and a Firewarrior team backed up by tons of Kroot and Hounds and Oxen for themed jungle squads let by small goups of Tau. In response to the huge cult following of Kroot, the Kroot mercenary list was created and published which put our Krootox in an even worse situation in Codex Tau. We all think of Krootox in terms of the Tau Codex and have the Kroot Mercenary List as the comparison as it's their only long range high strength weapon, so it is more attractive there as a support weapon, but in the Tau codex, we scuff at the idea of a pathetic weapon that is the Kroot Gun compared to our Missile Pod or Railgun.

So why are they so dogged upon by everyone?
  • In short, the Krootox simply occupy a Heavy Slot in our List, are attached to a single squad of Troop selections, which are required and only add meager firepower to that squad, in comparison to the other possibilities of our Tau units, which of course have much better Weapons for cheaper. The only difference, is that it's not a Tau unit, it's not an armored Tank and it's a themed unit of Kroot, which is full of character. The thing is, Krootox do not give Tau the heavy support that they already have, or offer it in a cheaper manner. The Krootox don't cost less than our current options, they cost more even. The only real benefit we have, is that one would have to chew through a lot of Kroot in order to finally stop that Ox from firing it's weapons, or multiple Ox from firing. But is it worth the 300+ price tag to get that kind of fire power? Absolutely not--we can have Crisis suits for roughly half the price with the same weapon, twinlinked on a unit that deep strikes and has a jetpack. The Krootox take up too many precious resources, in terms of the Force Organizational Chart and points and they even stop the Kroot from doing what they were designed to do, and instead turn them into "wounds" for the Krootox basically. Some claim that Krootox add a good boost of combat ability, allowing a slew of Strength 6 attacks to be added to the Kroot mix, however, what good is this if we have to start far away since we could not infiltrate, will probably lose most of our Kroot to some sort of fire, and then get into combat where if we don't inflict enough casualty (they don't ignore saves after all!) that they may fail combat and take a leadership test which is then failed and they're quite worthless running away, unless you think having a 300+ unit falling back with the ability to fire a few 12 inches Strength 7 shots as a retaliation is a good thing. A few strength 6 combat attacks (as in 9 total if you actually bought 3 oxen) is not worth the massive point cost, as every other army, including the imperial guard can do better than that for significantly cheaper--which means we did not gain any sort of advantage to warrant the price.

Flavor:

Kroot are a flavor. They're a good unit for the Tau, but much like Shapers and armor saves, they come at a price. And units like hounds can be useful but are also at a price of losing chart slots to non-Tau units only to be attached to a Troop unit. The Ox do this in the most extreme manner by taking up one of our places that we can find long range reliable -real- heavy support, such as our XV88 or Hammerhead. It all boils down the flavor of the Kroot. Some people may want an alternative option to the heavy Tau units and that's where the Krootox is found. However, this is still a problem since we are required at least One Fire Warrior team. That was done to prevent massive Kroot Troop lists with all the saved points being poured into our Elites and Heavy support Selections in order to really over power someone in terms of numbers and fire output. The Oxen was not included in that either, so again, they get the short end of the stick and are left to be a flavor of Kroot that only die hards would really take, for the sake of the character and fluff of an army themed heavily into their Kroot allies.

Summary:

It all boils down to you, the player. Krootox cannot be measured in any good mathmatical way as adding something beneficial to the army. That should be a sure sign that this is just a unit that is simply an option for an alternative list, not to sneak in some cheap powerful weapons buried in some Kroot. They do not do anything beneficial to the Kroot themselves either since they break the special abilities that they have, that we wanted so dearly. So it all comes down to you and how you want to field your Tau.

[sup]Forgive any spelling errors--the Spell Check feature isn't functioning for me at the moment.[/sup]
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Old 30 Mar 2005, 23:45   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Krootoxen: waste or worthwhile

so to boil it down

"they suck on ice , but if you want kroot flavoured Tau then theyre an option"

........ so they suck ................. :
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