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How the heck to I beat Eldar?
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Old 05 Dec 2007, 03:56   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Default How the heck to I beat Eldar?

Admittedly, I'm still learning tricks in this very complicated game, but I just don't know how to avoid getting slaughtered when I'm up against Eldar. Here are the problems I run into, and the few things I have come up with (mostly read) to deal with them.

Harlequins with Shadowseer: Get some protected fire in close to them, or give them a barrage or two from warfish and hammerheads. Still very dangerous, but I think I can handle them OK.

Avatar: he's tough, but my commander with shield drone, Plasma Rifle, and Fusion Blaster can probably handle him. Or I can just stay away from him as he's not very fast.

The guy who casts Fortune: Is it worth trying to DS something behind him so you can get a shot, or should I just not bother shooting at whatever he Fortunes this turn?

Here's the big one, their indestructable vehicles: I never seem to get the first turn, so I have to deal with glancing-only hits on fast-moving skimmers, but they always have upgrades that make it even worse. I can keep a vehicle from shooting by hitting it repeatedly, but that means I have to devote one of my relatively few tank-killing units to keeping it down. It doesn't take many vehicles before we've stalemated and only the lower-powered units on both sides are doing anything useful. With that holofield (or whatever it is that lets them roll two dice on the vehicle damage table), I'm not going to destroy it. With another annoying upgrade that they always have, any "can't move" result becomes, once again, a "can't shoot". Being asked to roll better than 3 on both of two dice means I'm only going to do anything but keep it from shooting with 1 of every 4 hits. Even if I can get an immobilize result, they don't die (some kind of emergency landing gear?), although I then start rolling on the Penetrating chart.

My list varies a bit, but generally it includes my commander as mentioned, three broadsides, 2 or 3 deathrains, 2 warfish (1 with FW's, 1 with PF's), an ionhead or skyray, and a small kroot squad. Other options include sniper drone teams or stealth teams with gun drones, and I usually have an ethereal hanging around to give me some chance at passing morale rolls.

So how do I take down those blasted Eldar vehicles? Or should I give up and ignore them?

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Old 05 Dec 2007, 05:02   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: How the heck to I beat Eldar?

Heh. Me and most other people here feel your pain.

The Avatar isn't worth shooting at, for the most part. He's big, powerful and... slow? If you move right, you'll never have any trouble from him. If you can spare the railgun shots, by all means, send a couple his way.

Harlequins are only dangerous when they're in a Falcon. Other than that, they're toughness 3 and have a 5+ save. Other than the cloaking field, they go down quick to shooting. Railgun submunition works wonders, as do missile pods, etc. Fire Warriors in 'fish work exceedingly well (get as close to them as possible... with any degree of luck, there'll be no survivors to assault you. Smart Missiles should be given to at least one thing in your army. They don't require LOS, so the cloaking field is useless against them.

The 'Fortune' guy is rather dangerous, due to this ability, as well as the less deadly 'doom' one. Don't waste shots on the fortuned unit unless they penetrate his armour save or they're guardians. Twin-linked 5+ is still worth shooting at. Against many units, AP 4 Missile Pods will penetrate their defence.

Vehicles: Nothing you can do, really. Try to shake them every turn. At least that prevents them from shooting you, even if they still ferry Infantry around. The best chance to kill them is a squad of 3 Deathrain battlesuits, in my opinion. Mathhammer gives them an 18% a turn of killing it. *sigh*

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Old 05 Dec 2007, 08:06   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: How the heck to I beat Eldar?

Rail gun submunitions, enough said with that. >

eldar are prone to 4+ saves, best to incorporate something that caters against such beasts.

Likewise

missile pods become a mans best friend against skimmers.

with a decent rate of fire and more average then not penetration value, a good salvo can potentially do something.

and if you can rapid fire....do it....I cant tell you how much t3 hurt eldar. Tau human auxiliaries would do pretty decently considering they have lasguns, firewarrior pulserifles will definately cause some hurt.

oh yeah look out for the farseer attached banshee squads ( doesnt even matter if I had khorne berzerkers, these witches will not die with constant armor rerolls and wound rerolls!)
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Old 05 Dec 2007, 08:31   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: May 2007
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Default Re: How the heck to I beat Eldar?

careful with your advice here guys.


"any unit wishing to target the shadowseer or her squad"


that does litterally mean that indirect fire weapons and those that require no LOS need to roll for the veil of tears.

even ork zzap guns (as they are now), and flamers need to roll it (seing someone roll a double 1 for the veil with a flamer is always fun)


your best bet is to devilfish some firewarriors RIGHT NEXT TO THEM and rapid fire them to peices. remember that if you land more wounds than there are models in the squad, YOU can pick the first model to take a save -i'd go for the shadowseer


against holo-fields, dont bother trying to destroy the falcon/fire prism. missile pods (or ion cannon) are your best bet (i would use submunitions on his infantry - broadsides are overkill either way against eldar )

just keep it stunned - eldar vehicles pack some seious firepower, DONT let them use it.
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Old 05 Dec 2007, 08:51   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: How the heck to I beat Eldar?

Well, with the main points covered, I just want to add one thing:

Stunning the Falcon is not enough since it has transport capacity, meaning that it can drop off a team of Fire Dragons/Harlequins on your front porch.

Worse, he can hide a Farseer on Jetbike behind it (with him/her being an IC and all).

I still haven`t found out what to do against THIS amount of cheese...

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 05 Dec 2007, 08:58   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: How the heck to I beat Eldar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrBonesaw

I still haven`t found out what to do against THIS amount of cheese...

Cheers,
-Bone
Bring some tortilla chips and 9 broadsides, and then make nachos?... maybe?

Anyway... seems like we get the short end when dealing with eldar sometimes...
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Old 05 Dec 2007, 09:40   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: How the heck to I beat Eldar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrBonesaw
Worse, he can hide a Farseer on Jetbike behind it (with him/her being an IC and all).

I still haven`t found out what to do against THIS amount of cheese...

Cheers,
-Bone
much like you can hide an ethereal behind a hammerhead/devilfish and stop your tau from running away (only good use of an ethereal i can think of)


you have MORE THAN ENOUGH firepower to put some hurt on a falcon.

i certainly fear running in front of firing lines of missile pods and railguns.


9 broadsides is always a good option though


plus how is a falcon cheeze :sadnshocked:

it has a transport capacity of 6 (not exactly the biggest squad in the world) and MUST spend a turn in front of your guns to disembark its troops (during which time i advise you tank shock said farseer who is hiding behind it)

i have already had long arguments over things that are "cheeze" (they total: nothing), lets not bring that subject up please
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Old 05 Dec 2007, 10:21   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: How the heck to I beat Eldar?

Massed missile pods and Ion Cannons are really the only good option against the skimmers. Either send a single rail gun at a falcon to keep it from shooting the next turn, or send everything with a strength above 6 at it and you'll have a moderate chance against it.

Tau are actually one of the better races against the holo-falcon because we have Deathrains, which are pretty cost effective against the falcons as well as generally being one of the most versatile units in the game.

My general advice is: shoot just enough to keep the skimmers from shooting at you, and focus the rest of your army on annihilating everything that isn't in a vehicle. This is where you'll be able to get some victory points. The Falcons will be able to drop stuff on you. In particular Fire Dragons are ensured a round of fire to destroy their target Harlequins you can at least block the falcon exit so it has to move and they can't assault. You need to kill more of his army than he can kill of yours. Hopefully you can pretty well take down his support after 3-5 turns of shooting. Once the support is down you're free to fire every damn gun in your army at the flying fortresses.

On turn 4 make sure you have a way to contest every objective so that he can't use them to close the VP gap you've hopefully made. If possible, put yourself in a position to drop a tank right on top of the objective on the last turn; it is very useful to go second here if you can hide your army well for the first turn. I can't remember the rules for tank shocking vehicles, but I'm pretty sure the vehicle with the lower armor moves aside, so try sending several tons of hammerhead at any falcon trying to sit on an objective.

That went on longer than I'd planned, but that's usually a good thing.

Good luck!
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Old 05 Dec 2007, 10:23   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: How the heck to I beat Eldar?

The problem are not harlequins. The problem are Fire Dragons. Move 24" in front of Tau army. Take incoming fire (You need about 11 HITS (so, about 16 shots with Hammerheads) with a Railgun to down a Falcon on average - provided it isn`t equipped with the Retro Thrusters. With MPs, you need 27 hits. No one packs that firepower). Move 12" next to tank/unit of Broadsides, disembark, paste target.

And the Farseer is usually on Jetbike and armed with the pesky spear with the 12" range that can slice open a Hammerhead. He can JSJ behind the Falcon, and reliably kill off/shake/stun your tanks.

So, that`s 2 dead units (one through the Fire Dragons, one - with luck - pasted by the Farseer) - a combo I can`t break reliably (with exceptional luck, it is possible, of course but then - what isn`t?) before it explodes into my face - and then there`s still the REST of the Eldar army. Add a second Holofalcon with Fire Dragons, a Wraithlord, and a couple of other units (Rangers), and you have a foe nearly impossible to kill.

So, unless you provide me with intructions how to break this, I will call this cheese all day long. I have often asked this question, and I have NEVER received an answer. Maybe I`m lucky this time

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 05 Dec 2007, 11:52   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: How the heck to I beat Eldar?

fusion piranhas are how I usually take care of jetbike characters...

then again my opponent makes the mistake of moving them too eagerly, making it easy for my fishies to single him out and rid him of his IC status...
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