Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Gw gave the submunition the wrong template.
Reply
Old 27 Nov 2007, 19:58   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 157
Default Gw gave the submunition the wrong template.

As the topic states, I believe Gw used the wrong template for the hammerheads submunition round.
Currtently we use the 5 inch pie plate,
What we should be using is the flamer template.

Logic supporting. A electromagnetic railgun fires rounds at ludicris speed, assuming its a sub round, when the shell reaches its target it explodes a small charge to splinter the round and spread it out.
Now all these pieces are still moving forward at high velocity and not in a circular path.
Each shard of the shell is still going to do all its dammage via connetic energy alone.

So what im suggesting is guess the spot where the round will splinter, place the tip of the flame template there, increase teh str of the shards to 8 or 9 and increase its ammour penetration to 2+ or 3+

You wont get as many with one round, but you will kill more of what you place under your template.

Lastly this idea comes from watching futer weapons on the military channel. Current US navy research on railguns demonstrated this concept ( in cgi) of the rail round hitting its target in a cone spray. Currently the navies railguns are still only bench modles and probably wont be fielded tested till 2012. But when they do get out on the waves, one navy ship will have a 400 mile circumferance zone of control.
If ya want to see the vidio google futer weapons and searth the site, ya wont be dissapointed if you do.
Kelsik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 Nov 2007, 21:57   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Warrensburg, MO
Posts: 403
Send a message via AIM to TimberwolfCY Send a message via MSN to TimberwolfCY Send a message via Yahoo to TimberwolfCY
Default Re: Gw gave the submunition the wrong template.

While your practical arguments make sense and are good, your gameplay implications are well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelsik

So what im suggesting is guess the spot where the round will splinter, place the tip of the flame template there, increase teh str of the shards to 8 or 9 and increase its ammour penetration to 2+ or 3+
...broken.

I mean, seriously, S 8-9 AP2-3 TEMPLATE (IGNORES COVER) 72" range direct fire gun? What? No, that would not work in the game, even if it cost 150 pts for the gun alone, that would be horrible.

And as far as fluff goes, you have to consider what armor of the day is capable of stopping. A round from a Lasgun (S3 AP-) is capable of going though, I believe, 3 feet of concrete. Now consider Space Marine power armor is 3+ Armour Sv. It's made of ceramite, and can easily stop Lasgun rounds. Now let's go to a tank. Most Imperial tanks are armoured with adamantium AND ceramite. No way the Lasgun bolt is going through any tank in the game. Carnifexes can take multiple Railgun rounds and KEEP FIGHTING. So personally I think fluff wise, the Large Blast and stats for the sub are fine.
__________________
"They got ded big shooty gunz dat'll kill tons of boyz, but if yer can get near em den you've got a chance. Just gotta make sure you bring loads of boyz, coz you ain't gonna have a whole lot left when you get close enough to crump em." - Warloard Skarmork, The Great Despoiler
TimberwolfCY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 Nov 2007, 22:34   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Retired back into the depths of the Internets.
Posts: 6,440
Send a message via MSN to mace
Default Re: Gw gave the submunition the wrong template.

As above, using the Large Blast Marker instead of the Flamer Template simplifies things - because all other Template weapons ignore cover. If you were to change it, and change the weapon stats - it would be ridiculously powerful. We'd be using submunitions every turn instead of Railguns or Ion Cannons.

Fluffwise, Tau are precise. The package is probably fired at a slower speed, perhaps even lobbed into place, and just detonates above the target area - I would think that the Tau have come up with a way to compensate for the direction of fire by shaping the charge or something similar to obtain a more even, circular coverage of the target area rather than an outwards spray that is less effective.

Gameplay-wise - as before, it keeps things simple so there aren't too many templates around. Templates and blasts generally have lower strength and AP than a direct hit, which is fitting because it just sprays the area in shrapnel for example, instead of fitting armour-piercing rounds or some other method of concentrating damage. IMO it's fine as it is with Large Blast and its current stats.
__________________
mace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 Nov 2007, 04:01   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
The Orange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,208
Default Re: Gw gave the submunition the wrong template.

Theoretically (I think) most all weapons should (by fluff) use the flamer template. The blast marker only really works well with those explosives that come from the sky (barrage). But game wise the circular plate works better, and is easier to use. You can't really turn it to get any more of a beneficial angle, you just place it down at the one spot that's the best, and move on.
__________________
The Orange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 Nov 2007, 05:21   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rockland, Wisconsin
Posts: 133
Send a message via MSN to XV88-2 Pilot
Default Re: Gw gave the submunition the wrong template.

Hey just a little pipe in, Being former artillery and knowing how low angle, high angle shooting effects the type of blast footprint. A true blast weapon leaves more of an egg shaped footprint no matter what angle you use, so that being said the round template represents the closest thing to a real blast type weapon.

While the flamer would represent something closer to the old beehive round (Flechette) tanks would fire, OK now your going to say that the last sentence should cancel out the above mentioned paragraph about the round template. Well if you fire a Flechette type round the range is way shorter then what is stated in the RG weapons profile.

Now this leads into the submunition part, a true submunition round is a larger round that reaches a certain point and sheds its outer shell and delivers the the killing part of the munition (IE DPICM Dual Purpose Improved Conventional or Cluster Munition) these again leave a egged shaped footprint, no matter the angle and or range to target.

So this is my take on the submunition round, its like a water balloon thrown at your feet, its not round and not cone shaped it forms more of an egg shaped pattern.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
Your army appears refreshingly different, which in itself is a god-send; it suggests you actually give a damn about something other than winning, and that alone speaks volumes.
TAU BATTLE RECORD AS OF 3 FEB 08

LOSSES 1
DRAWS 3
SOLID VICTORY 8
CRUSHING VICTORY 4
VICTORIOUS SLAUGHTERS 2

ARMYS PLAYED AGAINST SO FAR,

BLOOD ANGELS - BLACK TEMPLARS - DARK ELDAR - ELDAR - NECRONS - TYRANIDS - DARK ANGELS - ORKS
XV88-2 Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 Nov 2007, 05:25   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 76
Default Re: Gw gave the submunition the wrong template.

Here's my few cents on the submunition subject...some weapon systems or even prior airburst shells have a way of projecting the energy downwards and with that energy would inculde anything nasty (ie shrapnel, ball bearings or stilletos) and it would be like a cone but it would project downwards. So if your looking from the top and see the airburst, the result on the ground would be a large circle of destruction. In WW2 germans loved it when anyone was hiding in pine forests and they would target their 88's or even a mortar barrage...it would hit the trees and the explosion would drive the explosion downwards and this would include tree bits and shrapnel and unless you were in overhead cover you'd be in big trouble. In the tau world of technology i would think they have a very smart proximity fuse and it would be shaped for downward deflection of the explosion and when it reaches the point where the gunner wanted the shot to blow, the smart round would explode and do it's job.
24mech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 Nov 2007, 05:32   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rockland, Wisconsin
Posts: 133
Send a message via MSN to XV88-2 Pilot
Default Re: Gw gave the submunition the wrong template.

IE Timed Fuze in real world ;D
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
Your army appears refreshingly different, which in itself is a god-send; it suggests you actually give a damn about something other than winning, and that alone speaks volumes.
TAU BATTLE RECORD AS OF 3 FEB 08

LOSSES 1
DRAWS 3
SOLID VICTORY 8
CRUSHING VICTORY 4
VICTORIOUS SLAUGHTERS 2

ARMYS PLAYED AGAINST SO FAR,

BLOOD ANGELS - BLACK TEMPLARS - DARK ELDAR - ELDAR - NECRONS - TYRANIDS - DARK ANGELS - ORKS
XV88-2 Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 Nov 2007, 20:47   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 157
Default Re: Gw gave the submunition the wrong template.

After reading all the replies to my post, Im reminded why I like every one on this site. ya keep me honest when I get a idea.

I really liked the extra imput from our now resident artillery expert. Egg shapped, huh, I guess I never really got a good look at the aftermath of a round up close. Most vidio clips only show the blast and not much of the post blast.

thanks people.
Kelsik is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
new to warhammer 40k and never painted a daemon before so i gave it a go... El moustache Showcase 6 08 Apr 2009 15:47
Submunition Trick3003 Tau 16 31 Oct 2007 16:45
In the wrong place at the wrong time Tom Norman Space Marines 8 17 Sep 2006 22:38
Who gave me -karma? Elessar Enclave Talk 3 19 Apr 2006 16:24