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Crisis Battlesuit - 2 missile pods?
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Old 16 Nov 2007, 17:05   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Utah
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Default Crisis Battlesuit - 2 missile pods?

I'm a new Tau player and am setting up my first Crisis suits. I have read a lot of articles on this site, and searched the forums for crisis suit configurations. However, I have never once seen a crisis suit with 2 middle pods. I see plenty of TL middle pods.

I don't see any rule restricting me from taking two of the same weapon---the codex does limit us to two. I am concerned because I have never seen anyone use 2 missle pods. Below is the exact configuration followed by performance stats for a twin-linked version.

I put together two configurations and played some mathhammer. Any feedback is welcome.

Option 1. Shas'el and 2 bodyguards (missle pod x 2, hardwired multi-tracker, targetting array)
Option 2. Shas'el and 2 bodyguards (TL missle pod, targetting array)

There is only a 33 points difference between the 2 configurations.

Option 1 stats:
4 shots at 83.3% BS5 = 3.332 hits
8 shots at 66.6% BS4 = 5.328 hits
8 hits

T Sv Damage Save Wounds
T3 4+ 6.664 0 6
T4 4+ 6.664 0 6
T4 3+ 6.664 3.996 3
T4 2+ 6.664 4.998 2
T6 2+ 5.328 4.165 1

Armor Glancing Penetrating
AV13 1.328 0
AV12 2.664 1.328
AV11 4 2.664
AV10 5.328 4

Option 2 stats:
2 twin-linked shots at 83.3% BS5 = 2.499 hits
4 twin-linked shots at 66.6% BS4 = 3.996 hits
5 hits

T Sv Damage Save Wounds
T3 4+ 4.165 0 4
T4 4+ 4.165 0 4
T4 3+ 4.165 2.664 2
T4 2+ 4.165 3.332 1
T6 2+ 3.333 2.499 1

Armor Glancing Penetrating
AV13 0.83 0
AV12 1.665 0.83
AV11 2.5 1.665
AV10 3.33 2.5

As you can see, option 1 is almost twice as successful with its primary role of taking out transports and light/medium vehicles.
The results are not as spectacular for any kind of infantry; however, for only 33 points, I'd take option 1 any day.
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Old 16 Nov 2007, 17:13   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Crisis Battlesuit - 2 missle pods?

Sorry, this is illegal. You can't have two of the same weapon counting as separate weapons. It says in the codex that they are always twin linked if you have more then one of one weapon. You can have 3 hard points with weapons, but this means 2 TL weapons and 1 of something else.
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Old 16 Nov 2007, 17:28   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Crisis Battlesuit - 2 missle pods?

Like Darkside said, if you have two identical weapons they have to be twin linked, and you can't take 3 identical weapons.*

Consider this as an alternative:
Your config:* crisis suit with 2 missile pods and multitracker (I know it's illegal, but just for discussion)
You should expect 2 hits per suit (4 shots at P=1/2 hit/shot)

Closest legal equivalent: crisis suit with TL missile pods and targeting array.
You should expect 1.8 hits per suit (2*(2/3 + 1/3*2/3)

It's not that much worse (at least in theory) and it's legal to boot!
(Let me know if you need an explanation of the probability used)
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Old 16 Nov 2007, 17:30   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Crisis Battlesuit - 2 missle pods?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Darkside
Sorry, this is illegal. You can't have two of the same weapon counting as separate weapons. It says in the codex that they are always twin linked if you have more then one of one weapon. You can have 3 hard points with weapons, but this means 2 TL weapons and 1 of something else.
You're right. I was focused on the entry under "Twin-linked battlesuit weapons systems" that states, "No model may carry three of the same weapons system." I had forget the battlesuit armoury intro that states, "No model can pick the same item twice."

I blame GW though. If I can't pick the same item twice, how could I ever carry more than three of the same weapon anyway? (that question is rhetorical, so don't respond.)

Anyway, thank you for the response.
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Old 16 Nov 2007, 17:36   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Crisis Battlesuit - 2 missle pods?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadshot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Darkside
Sorry, this is illegal. You can't have two of the same weapon counting as separate weapons. It says in the codex that they are always twin linked if you have more then one of one weapon. You can have 3 hard points with weapons, but this means 2 TL weapons and 1 of something else.


You're right. I was focused on the entry under "Twin-linked battlesuit weapons systems" that states, "No model may carry three of the same weapons system." I had forget the battlesuit armoury intro that states, "No model can pick the same item twice."

I blame GW though. If I can't pick the same item twice, how could I ever carry more than three of the same weapon anyway? (that question is rhetorical, so don't respond.)

Anyway, thank you for the response.
Because a group of three battlesuits with two burst cannons and a targeting array each would be horribly overpowered for its cost. XD
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Old 16 Nov 2007, 19:21   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Crisis Battlesuit - 2 missle pods?

sorry but you can't equip two identical weapons and count them as seperate weapons, shame though, wouldnt it be awesome to have 2 burst cannons (nids beware) or 2 plasma rifles.
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Old 16 Nov 2007, 23:17   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Crisis Battlesuit - 2 missle pods?

Quote:
Because a group of three battlesuits with two burst cannons and a targeting array each would be horribly overpowered for its cost. XD
As far as I can tell (unless I'm missing something) there is nothing stopping you from filling all your elite slots with 3 suits with a twin-linked burst canon and targeting array, other then it would leave you very vulnerable to anything with a better save.
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Old 16 Nov 2007, 23:23   #8 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Crisis Battlesuit - 2 missile pods?

No, there isn't. But I think he was referring to what would happen if you could take two non-linked Burst Cannons.
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Old 16 Nov 2007, 23:32   #9 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Crisis Battlesuit - 2 missile pods?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadshot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Darkside
Sorry, this is illegal. You can't have two of the same weapon counting as separate weapons. It says in the codex that they are always twin linked if you have more then one of one weapon. You can have 3 hard points with weapons, but this means 2 TL weapons and 1 of something else.
You're right. I was focused on the entry under "Twin-linked battlesuit weapons systems" that states, "No model may carry three of the same weapons system." I had forget the battlesuit armoury intro that states, "No model can pick the same item twice."

I blame GW though. If I can't pick the same item twice, how could I ever carry more than three of the same weapon anyway? (that question is rhetorical, so don't respond.)

Anyway, thank you for the response.
It's a little confusing.. but Weapons are an exception to the "No model can pick the same item twice." rule. You can take one of the same weapon, or two of the same weapon. IF you take two - then it counts as twin-linked, period. You can't have two separate weapons (a lot of new players think this, I know I did back when I started). Though as per the Twin-linked rule, you can't take three of the same weapon.

I guess you can think of it as, you can take either one weapon, or one twin-linked weapon (that 'counts as two' - by that I guess they mean it takes up the space of two weapons, so you can only have one more system) - thus you're not really picking the same item twice.
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Old 18 Nov 2007, 02:58   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Crisis Battlesuit - 2 missile pods?

If you want lots of dakka, take a Missile Pod and a Burst Cannon. Sure you have one less shot... but two of those shots are MUCH more powerful than the burst cannon shots. This also gives you extra range as the missile pods are double the range. Finally, for the team leader... make him a 'Vre and give him a CIB (and a targeting array and HW multi-tracker) more shots than the burst cannon, but weaker strength and better gunnery for both guns.

5 shots per regular crisis and 8 for the 'Vre... that would give you 18 shots... more than enough dakka I would think. ;D
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