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all firewarrior combat patrol?
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Old 14 Oct 2007, 10:00   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default all firewarrior combat patrol?

i enjoy playing big games and apocalypse as much as the next guy, but i also enjoy breakin in a quick game every once in awhile; to me that meas combat patrols!

i have often considered playing an all firewarrior army for fun, but have never gotten around to it. so i am thinking that this would be more effective in smaller games rather than large ones because...

1) S5 guns will odminate just about any other infantry
2) emp grenades can take out any tanks
3) firewarriors can use leapfrog tactics with markerlights, movement, etc


but the weaknesses that come to mind for me are...

1) slow moving army
2) have to get to tanks before using emp's
3) can be easily overpowered by gaunts/marines/anything in close combat


what do you guys think? is an all firewarrior army feasible or just a joke? ???
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Old 14 Oct 2007, 10:04   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: all firewarrior combat patrol?

It's feasible.
If you take the MI (Mobile Infantry) approach, of Carbines, grenades and stealths (for flavour ) it becomes a highly effective CP force.
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Old 14 Oct 2007, 10:29   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: all firewarrior combat patrol?

I don`t know, I`d say no.

We had a CP-event a couple of weeks ago, and a Firewarrior-only approach wouldn`t have been feasible - as long as there aren`t any Devilfish in your CP.

I`ve faced fast Marines in Rhinos/Razorbacks, Assault Squads, Bikese, etc., so, mainly loads of Power armour. Add in a Nid list which had, basically, 30+ models on the table.

Fielding just Pulse weaponry just isn`t enough, especially when it comes to Bikes/Assault Squads who use cover, or Rhinos playing mobile cover.

Furthermore, Firewarriors alone are waaaay too vulnerable to things like pinning (trust me, happened to me).

So, I`d say it COULD be feasible, if you used a one or two Devilfish, as well (or one Devilfish and a Piranha), just to block assaulters...
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Old 14 Oct 2007, 13:50   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: all firewarrior combat patrol?

It would be fun but not effective IMO. Sure there are STR5 guns and access to EMP's but there are some serious drawbacks.

First of all the models are going to be rather expensive if you factor in the SHas'ui and EMP they will all be about as expensive as marines. And honestly they are no more effective t han they were before, they just have the ability to hunt tanks.

But honestly hunting vehicles in CP on foot is a fools errand. Are you really going to be able to footslog it in the open across the entire board under the weaight of fire of 2 Whirlwinds? Because I see many marine CP lists that run such cheese tactics since WHirlies are only like 80 points. Hidden behind cover your fire warriors are going to get decimated as they attempt to cross no mans land and engage said whirlies if they can even get in range in time anyway in six turns. Not to mention you opponent will still have over 200 points worth of marines to assist in cutting them to ribbons. Any fast vehicles like vypers or speeders will simply be to quick to even get into assault in any case and that brings me to my next point.

That point is speed and maneuvorability. These are probably the most important things to a battlefield commander as they allow for ambushs and unexpected movement. 6" a turn will not surprise anyone and thus you will be outmaneuvored by every army you face typically. Bikes and gaunts will eat your poor FW's for breakfast in CC and there will be little you can do to stop them.

Finally, even when facing other static shooty armies like IG or even footslogging marines you are going to be outshot at range. I don't remember where the article is but basivally even though Tau outrange and have higher STR basic weapons than marines and IG, the "buried" nature of both armies special weapons allow for them to retain their effectiveness at range to a much higher degree than Tau.

Think about it like this, a 5 man marine Tac Sqaud with 2 heavy bolters costs a mere 80 points. Thas 8 fire warriors for comparison. Now, assume that the Tau are in range of the marines(which is a big assumption since the HB's are 36" range) and both units are in 4+ cover. Even if the Tau shoot first thats only 4 hits which is 2-3 wounds which may result in one dead marine. Now the Marines shoot back with 6 heavy bolter shots and hit 4 times wound 3 or 4 times and if the Tau have 4+ cover they will save maybe 2 so 1 or 2 dead Tau.

So in this case you can see that the Firewarriors are already losing effectiveness as a firebase while the marines still have 2 more ablative wounds before they start losing any real ranged firepower. And quickly, the FW's become unable to even remove those wounds as in the three turns it will take to remove them they are losing 1-2 FW's per turn. And this all hinges on being in range as well as being in 4+ cover, neither of which is guarenteed. IG heavy weapons teams are the exact same but substitute more ablative wounds for power armor.

So in conclusion playing an all FW footslogging force means you will be unable to deal with vehicles, unable to deal with fast assaulters, and unable to deal with stand and shoot armies. All in all I can't really think of anything a pure FW force with no transports could effectively deal with. No in CP you want to stick to DFish, Kroot, Piranhas, and Deathrains FTW.
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Old 14 Oct 2007, 20:49   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: all firewarrior combat patrol?

I played in a game yesterday where the rules were 1 hq and 4 troops.


I had a crisis suit+bodyguard and 4 sets of 12 fire warriors withs drones.

I was against necrons, tyranids, and sisters of battle.

I didn't win but was able to do massive damage to all 3 forces and ended the game with 7 FW left after 10 turns.

I think games like this are alot of fun because there is just a massive amount of action and death.


It adds to the game to make an army that is more fun than effective sometimes. To me alot of firewarriors = alot of fun.
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Old 15 Oct 2007, 01:02   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: all firewarrior combat patrol?

I actually played this an all firewarrior list in a 400 point combat patrol. 40 Firewarriors against some vanilla marines.

He set up his list as a major assault list and all that, and I thought I was going to die very quickly.

I set up so he would have no where to hide and all my firewarriors could support eachother he set up to sneak through cover.

My firewarriors just unleashed pulse hell on those marines. He brought some uber commander guy just for kicks and that guy ended up 7 inches away from my firewarrior line. Of course, he then ate 80 pulse rounds. :P

Didn't lose a single firewarrior.

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Old 15 Oct 2007, 10:46   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: all firewarrior combat patrol?

Quote:
Originally Posted by israfel420
But honestly hunting vehicles in CP on foot is a fools errand. Are you really going to be able to footslog it in the open across the entire board under the weaight of fire of 2 Whirlwinds? Because I see many marine CP lists that run such cheese tactics since WHirlies are only like 80 points. Hidden behind cover your fire warriors are going to get decimated as they attempt to cross no mans land and engage said whirlies if they can even get in range in time anyway in six turns. Not to mention you opponent will still have over 200 points worth of marines to assist in cutting them to ribbons. Any fast vehicles like vypers or speeders will simply be to quick to even get into assault in any case and that brings me to my next point.
No Whirlswinds in CP - they have an Ordnance weapon, and Ordnance isn`t allowed. Double- wield Whirlwindsocks and, well, hit them. Preferably using THEIR Whirlwinds...

The rest, of course, is absolutely true... ;D

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 16 Oct 2007, 01:45   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: all firewarrior combat patrol?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrBonesaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by israfel420
But honestly hunting vehicles in CP on foot is a fools errand. Are you really going to be able to footslog it in the open across the entire board under the weaight of fire of 2 Whirlwinds? Because I see many marine CP lists that run such cheese tactics since WHirlies are only like 80 points. Hidden behind cover your fire warriors are going to get decimated as they attempt to cross no mans land and engage said whirlies if they can even get in range in time anyway in six turns. Not to mention you opponent will still have over 200 points worth of marines to assist in cutting them to ribbons. Any fast vehicles like vypers or speeders will simply be to quick to even get into assault in any case and that brings me to my next point.
No Whirlswinds in CP - they have an Ordnance weapon, and Ordnance isn`t allowed. Double- wield Whirlwindsocks and, well, hit them. Preferably using THEIR Whirlwinds...

The rest, of course, is absolutely true... ;D

Cheers,
-Bone
Those Cheatin bastards at my store I totally forgot that rule for CP...
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