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Markerlight removal timing
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Old 08 Oct 2007, 03:27   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Markerlight removal timing

This is a question regarding markerlight removal.

When a markerlight hits an enemy unit, a markerlight token is placed by that unit. Subsequent firing units can then use the markerlight as detailed in the Tau Empire codex. At the bottom of the markerlight use section, it states that markerlight declarations are made before to hit rolls, but removal of the markerlights are made after to hit rolls are made. Thus, you do NOT remove otherwise "wasted" markerlights if your unit can't shoot the marked unit due to missed target priority etc.

My question is this, if you choose to use the markerlights for 1) reducing cover saves or 2) reducing leadership - do you remove any if all the shots miss (no chance of wounds?)

Example, hammerhead fires a submunition round at pathfinders in the woods. It declares to use 2 markerlights to reduce cover saves. It rolls to hit and misses completely. Are the two markerlight tokens removed, or not?

Example 2, sniper drone fires at a unit of guardsmen and declares 6 markerlights to go to reduce leadership for pinning test. The to-hit roll misses. Are the 6 tokens removed?

Thanks for the clarification.

-Aun'Shasta
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Old 08 Oct 2007, 08:55   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlight removal timing

It clearly says what to do at the bottom of page 29 in the codex.

You always declare what you do with them before you roll to hit. If you successfully hit, THEN you remove the markerlight tokens.

So in your example #1, you declare the use of two markerlight tokens, you roll to hit and miss, then you don't remove any at all.

Example #2 - the same thing, as they missed, you don't use up any tokens.
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Old 08 Oct 2007, 09:29   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlight removal timing

That sounds wrong to me... very, very wrong. For one thing, it implies you can "stack" counters between turns, even if the target moves, or the "lighting" unit is destroyed.

The way I have always seen it done, even in the GW store, is you allocate your Markerlights, resolve, then remove them. If you miss, your Markerlight is wasted.

Admittedly, this was the same GW that didn't know how ATSKNF worked in assault, but every Tau player I've met has understood Makerlights could be wasted.


I definately don't think your wording is right, Mace. The Markers are removed after a To Hit ROLL is made. Even if you miss, you still made the roll. If you didn't roll any dice, then the Markerlight is left unused, but if you rolled any dice then you have used up the Markerlight.
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Old 08 Oct 2007, 13:41   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlight removal timing

Well, counters are removed at the end of that shooting phase, as stated on that page.

Though I take back what I said about the examples. Following it through more closely (wow, I didn't think my 40k was this rusty :S) - as before, you declare that you want to use the counters. Then you choose what effect(s) you want (e.g. affecting BS, Target Priority, Ignore Night Fighting, or affect LD or Cover Saves). Going the wording of each of those options, regardless of what happens, the markerlight counter is removed - as the BS increase is already 'used' when you roll to hit, and the LD and Cover Save modifiers apply should the target unit take any casualties or be forced to make cover saves - if your shooting didn't do anything, bad luck, the counter is used.

So yes, in short, if you make a roll to hit, regardless of the outcome, the markerlight counter is used up. The immediate or possible effects are present when rolling to hit and subsequently to wound/save etc.
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Old 08 Oct 2007, 14:07   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlight removal timing

Put simply, it says that they are removed after To Hit rolls are made. So, if you can see them, but miss, then the markerlights are used. If you never see them in the first place (Night-Fighting, etc.) you don't roll To Hit, and thus they are not removed.
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Old 08 Oct 2007, 15:00   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlight removal timing

It makes sense. The way I read it, the token goes away if you use the benefit. Whether you hit, or miss, you still used those tokens to better your odds, therefore they go away. The 2 caviats are cases where you don't even get to use the benefit of the markerlight. If you 1) Can't shoot at the target or 2) can't see them. If declare the use of a token and roll to hit that squad, the token goes away.
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Old 08 Oct 2007, 17:57   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlight removal timing

the only way the marker light counters are not removed is if the target that you are shooting at cant be seen or if you get distracted, if you roll to hit but you miss that is because the tau are rubbish shots, but they still used the marker light to help them hit the target.

On the subject of marker lights, if you mark an enemy stealth suit unit, do you ignore the night fighting rules imposed by the stealth suits?
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Old 08 Oct 2007, 21:35   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlight removal timing

No; the "Stealth Field" is not Night Fight, it just shares the mechanic.

Ditto for "Shroud" and "Veil of Tears".
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Old 10 Oct 2007, 17:11   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlight removal timing

Surely, if the stealth suit is marked then everyone else can then see it. A squad of glowing figures that you can see through your visor is going to stand out.
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Old 11 Oct 2007, 02:40   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlight removal timing

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Originally Posted by masterventris
Surely, if the stealth suit is marked then everyone else can then see it. A squad of glowing figures that you can see through your visor is going to stand out.
Well the markerlight can negate the night fighting rules so that the firing unit can fire at the target as though it's in day. However even in day, the effects of the Stealth Field or Shrouding are still in effect, if not compounded when under night fight conditions. It's not the same. At best, the night fighting rules are negated, but you still have to roll to see the Stealth Suits as though it's day.
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