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Does anyone think that tau guns are cheesy..???
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Old 04 Oct 2007, 22:59   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Does anyone think that tau guns are cheesy..???

many people (even some tau players) think that tau guns are cheesy and that to have a 'range 30" strenth 5 AP 5 rapid fire gun' for basic infantry is just outrageously cheesy and that you dont pay the points that amount of firepower.
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Old 04 Oct 2007, 23:03   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: ODes anyone think that tau guns are cheesy..???

Keep in mind the fragility of the thing that's carrying that firepower, mixed with the fact that you have to remain stationary to get best use of it or buy an expensive transport instead.

Pulse Rifles, while seemingly cheesy, are balanced by these other factors - you can't just look at the gun itself.
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Old 04 Oct 2007, 23:14   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: ODes anyone think that tau guns are cheesy..???

You know what I think is cheesy on "basic troops"?

Power armor, Ld8, And They Shall Know No Fear, S4, T4, WS4, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Bolters AND Bolt Pistols, and the ability to take special/heavy weapons.


No, Firewarriors are not cheesy.
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Old 05 Oct 2007, 00:11   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: ODes anyone think that tau guns are cheesy..???

Quote:
Originally Posted by T0nkaTruckDriver
You know what I think is cheesy on "basic troops"?

Power armor, Ld8, And They Shall Know No Fear, S4, T4, WS4, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Bolters AND Bolt Pistols, and the ability to take special/heavy weapons.


No, Firewarriors are not cheesy.
Don't forget they only cost 4 points more than FW's and now, are BS4, and with the new combat squad rules coming out every FOC slot with them can be spli into 2 squads. No, FW's are not cheesey.

Besides if our guns weren't there to save us how in the world would we survive? I mean we suck in CC and our BS is only as good as a gaurdsmen. We've had to get uber creative as an army with our tactics to even make FW's effective and survivable.
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Old 05 Oct 2007, 00:22   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: ODes anyone think that tau guns are cheesy..???

Quote:
Originally Posted by stabby dave
many people (even some tau players) think that tau guns are cheesy and that to have a 'range 30" strength 5 AP 5 rapid fire gun' for basic infantry is just outrageously cheesy and that you don't pay the points that amount of firepower.
Lets look at a Fire Warrior compared to a Guardsman. For 3 points more, you get -1 WS, -1 I and +1 to the save (In a good way). Lets assume that an increased stat is worth one point and therefore, A lasgun armed FW would work out to be a point cheaper than a Guardsmen. So by this model, a Pulse weapon is worth 4 points, and we quite clearly pay for it.

To check, lets compare to a Marine. We have: -2 WS, -1BS, -1 S, -1T, -2 I, -1LD, -1 Sv and a better weapon. There is an actual difference of 5 points, but using the one point per stat idea, they work out to be 9 points more expensive, but with the price of the Pulse rifle factored in, the difference is 5 (Ignoring ATSKNF). In other words, we pay for our guns at the expense of our statline.

It is balanced out in the game by the fact that even guardsmen can walk over us in combat. Our big guns also cost us dearly, a Railgun costing nearly three times as much as a lascannon, so really, I can't see how they are cheesy.

Hope that was understandable.
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Old 05 Oct 2007, 01:07   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: ODes anyone think that tau guns are cheesy..???

Yeah, and also please note our ability to kill is the same as that of a Space marine... They hit more often for less chance to wound, while we don't hit quite as often but do wound a lot of the time.
I've said this before and I'll say it again, Tau's basic stats suck, they always will, that's what we pay for having the best gear in the game. Seriously, have you ever seen what happens when you pound a land raider crusader from behind with 12 EMP grenades? it blows sky high quite a bit of the time.
Let's just go down the list of our kick-ass equipment, and then show how we pay for it.

Battle suits- quite possibly the most versatile unit in the entire game, this includes SM tactical squads, but they cost a pretty penny after you deck them out nice and proper.
oh, did I mention that they're one of the few non-vehicle units in the game that get to choose if they are twin-linked or not? and the ability to move and shoot rapid fire weapons normally.
B-suit armory
-a weapon for every single situation, including a fairly powerful plasma rifle that doesn't explode in our face.
-Ability to shoot more than one weapon on the same guy at a time (I just realized how often I've accidently ignored this rule...)
-a +4 invulnerable save
-The ability to see in night fight without giving away their position
-ability for individual squad members to choose separate targets.
-the most powerful LoS weapon in the game, the rail gun, and it's twin-linked to boot.
-the ability to move and shoot heavy weapons.
-quite a few special issue upgrades that are incredibly useful.

The infantry are incredibly squishy, Fire warriors and path finders are very easy to kill if you know what you're doing.... and even if you don't.
-I've already mentioned EMP grenades
-same night-fight seeing abilities as B-suits
-the ability to choose separate targets
-the amazing marker light
-oh and both infantry and b-suits can call on either extra guns, wounds, or the ability to improve the unit's own fire power till it's almost obscene in the form of drones. and they can get that last ability even without drones if they're infantry.

Vehicular upgrades aren't to be sneezed at either.
-reroll glancing hits if it's an immobilization roll
-ability to become an obscure target to anyone more than 12" away
-ability to wound anyone who attacks it in close combat on a 4+
-the HH railgun, need I say more...
-Landing gear! most skimmers would kill for this... we can land our tanks and avoid them imploding if they get hit with an immobilization roll!
-Seeker missles, which are just funny when you pop five of the suckers on someone.
-they can move through dangerous terrain without worrying about dieing, but get the benefits of being obscured all the same.
-the target lock and targeting array, we've gone over the 1st, and everyone knows the second one.

Now for how we pay...
-all the abilities above must be bought... and then they cost an arm and a leg.
-Our stats suck, lets just face it, they do, this balances out at least 75% of the awesome equipment we have... because if you haven't noticed, assault is one of the largest portions of the game, I've had it go on much longer than shooting or movement combined if enough models are involved.
-even our tank's stats suck... even our super scary heavy tanks like the Hammerhead can't take much of a beating.
-our best weapon, the rail gun, is fairly expensive, also only 2 units get it, one of them can only have one, but gets to choose between solid shot or large template, the other is slow as hell and can only shoot the solid shot form, but gets to reroll misses... either way, our choices are severely curtailed.

And that is tau in a nut shell... not tactics, just our primary advantage
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Old 05 Oct 2007, 01:21   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: ODes anyone think that tau guns are cheesy..???

Its funny. I've never managed to win a game...in fact I've very seldom even tied a game. And still I catch complaints left and right over my skimmer army.

Tau are great if you know what you're doing (which I'm still learning). A combination of their maneuverability and their firepower is the key to victory. Too much offense or defense can spell defeat for them. But play your cards right and use whatever tricks you can (Fish of Fury, Jump-Shoot-Jump, Piranha Feeding Frenzy), and you can pull a win off.
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Old 05 Oct 2007, 03:44   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: ODes anyone think that tau guns are cheesy..???

Not to be a kill-joy but hasn't the "are tau cheesy" topic been beaten to death by enough other threads already?
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Old 05 Oct 2007, 04:19   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: ODes anyone think that tau guns are cheesy..???

Maybe it's time for a thread about the cheesiness of people who start threads about Tau being cheesy.
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Old 05 Oct 2007, 04:20   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: ODes anyone think that tau guns are cheesy..???

Quote:
Originally Posted by chryos
Not to be a kill-joy but hasn't the "are tau cheesy" topic been beaten to death by enough other threads already?
probably... but at this point we want to make dead horse paste... <.< >.>

and also quite a few of us like arguing that Tau aren't cheesy, we get so much practice in our local hobby shops after all ^^
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