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AFP on an IC, Worth a Second Look?
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Old 04 Oct 2007, 04:07   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Franklin Tennessee
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Default AFP on an IC, Worth a Second Look?

On a whim last night I decided to run an AFP on my secondary Shas'El and I must say I was quite impressed with the combinations effectiveness.

Now I realize it may seem counterintuitive to run the AFP on a Shas'El since it wastes his ballistic skill but actually there were some very subtle benefits that turned out to be extremely potent.

The suit was configured as follows:

Shas'El, TL:MP, AFP, HWMT - 93 points

Using free drone teams and Kroot as screens to maintain IC status this guy was able to close to 18" on 2 teams of Eldar pathfinders that were infiltrated into the only piece of real cover on my left flank. With just one shot from the AFP he was able to kill 3 from one unit and 4 from the other. If I had not had the AFP, I would have had to extend significant resources to root those Pathfinders out of their 2+ cover. This would have been bad since they would have picked my Broadside team apart all game.

So the AFP was critical in this case and kept me from being at a severe disadvantage. I feel that without his IC status he certainly would not have lived long enough to delivery his payload and in fact my opponent did indeed attempt to target him. Whats even better is that when he tried to remove my kroot and drones to negate IC status he wasted a good amount of shooting and ultimately failed in his endeavors(Some Kroot survived).

This experience tends to make me think a little more open minded about my commander setup. Being able to reliably deliver a large blast template that removes cover is something I am quickly becoming enamoured with. And with STR4 and AP5 anything that relies on cover to survive bolter fire is quickly going to find itself in trouble not to mention possibly pinned the following round(Ratlings, Pathfinders, and Kroot are the first 3 that spring to mind). Even marines though will typically lose a few of their numbers against a STR4 large blast template.

Whats even better here is the turn it took the 'El to get into range of the Pathfinders he managed to shake a falcon and it sure didn't hurt that his missiles had 5-6% better accuracy than a Shas'O.

So what do you think? Is the opportunity cost worth it? I mean sure putting the AFP on the 'El sacrifices some accuracy you could have had on a different weapon but the ability to lay down those templates with certainty sure is nice. The suit also remains cheap and with the missiles, multi role should you not have the need or opportunity to use the AFP.

Of course with my beloved CIB gone I may have to think about reworking my 'O....
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Old 04 Oct 2007, 04:31   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: AFP on an IC, Worth a Second Look?

I've used the following setup on my Main 'el for ages (mainly to keep within my urban combat fluff)
MP, AFP, Shield, HWMT – 107 pts.

He's managed to do large amounts of damage to any clumped up units.
And for some reason, he always does more damage to fearless units. (4 Berserkers with 1 template, then another with his MP).
I've contemplated changing to an 'O for the extra wound and attack, but it just wastes his extra BS having the AFP.
And the look of horror on Eldar player's faces when you tell them their Pathfinders suddenly have no save after this pie-plate hits them; priceless.
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Old 04 Oct 2007, 09:35   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Default Re: AFP on an IC, Worth a Second Look?

Quote:
Originally Posted by israfel420
On a whim last night I decided to run an AFP on my secondary Shas'El and I must say I was quite impressed with the combinations effectiveness.

Now I realize it may seem counterintuitive to run the AFP on a Shas'El since it wastes his ballistic skill but actually there were some very subtle benefits that turned out to be extremely potent.

The suit was configured as follows:

Shas'El, TL:MP, AFP, HWMT - 93 points

Using free drone teams and Kroot as screens to maintain IC status this guy was able to close to 18" on 2 teams of Eldar pathfinders that were infiltrated into the only piece of real cover on my left flank. With just one shot from the AFP he was able to kill 3 from one unit and 4 from the other. If I had not had the AFP, I would have had to extend significant resources to root those Pathfinders out of their 2+ cover. This would have been bad since they would have picked my Broadside team apart all game.

So the AFP was critical in this case and kept me from being at a severe disadvantage. I feel that without his IC status he certainly would not have lived long enough to delivery his payload and in fact my opponent did indeed attempt to target him. Whats even better is that when he tried to remove my kroot and drones to negate IC status he wasted a good amount of shooting and ultimately failed in his endeavors(Some Kroot survived).

This experience tends to make me think a little more open minded about my commander setup. Being able to reliably deliver a large blast template that removes cover is something I am quickly becoming enamoured with. And with STR4 and AP5 anything that relies on cover to survive bolter fire is quickly going to find itself in trouble not to mention possibly pinned the following round(Ratlings, Pathfinders, and Kroot are the first 3 that spring to mind). Even marines though will typically lose a few of their numbers against a STR4 large blast template.

Whats even better here is the turn it took the 'El to get into range of the Pathfinders he managed to shake a falcon and it sure didn't hurt that his missiles had 5-6% better accuracy than a Shas'O.

So what do you think? Is the opportunity cost worth it? I mean sure putting the AFP on the 'El sacrifices some accuracy you could have had on a different weapon but the ability to lay down those templates with certainty sure is nice. The suit also remains cheap and with the missiles, multi role should you not have the need or opportunity to use the AFP.

Of course with my beloved CIB gone I may have to think about reworking my 'O....
I must admit that at first I thought AFP on a Shas'El no way, but after some thought I actually quite like the idea, the CIB is to luck reliant for my tastes as you know but the AFP being guess is a lot surer (as long as you know your ranges) and if LOS exists your only rolling one scatter die.

I wonder if you have considered using this with a drone squad with the circular technique (surrounding the Shas with the drones) this would leave your Kroot free to do what they do best and the drones add considerable firepower plus the ability to pin (use marker lights to reduce the LDS for the pin and you have a valuable technique for reducing assaults or return fire etc)

Also it is a blast template which would work beautifully on swarms of Scarabs etc and causes two wounds on any swarm (rippers etc).

Also the multi would allow the suit to be effective against open topped vehicle, twin linked MP and the two hits caused by the blast template AFP means a good chance of stopping any vehicle up to AV10 (obviously AV13 with the MP).

I can see this suit fit working well against Orks, Nids etc but you would have to make sure he was protected and a drone squad would do that beautifully, even add the free drones to make him even tougher.
I a not a fan of anti infantry commanders bu I can really see this one being a real asset, the negation of cover, lack of LOS on the AFP (if needed) and the MP really seems to offer benefits I had not considered before.
Good idea and one with a lot more potential, kudos
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Old 04 Oct 2007, 10:10   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: AFP on an IC, Worth a Second Look?

Thanks for the positive response, I thought this config might be a be a good idea.

To answer your question I did actually consider a drone screen, but I think 7 point Kroot and VP "free" gun drones from Piranhas fit the bill here a little better. For such a task it boils down to a simple matter of expendability. Kroot and free drones have it, unit based drones do not(since they cost 12 points apiece and all). Plus as far as the Kroot are concerned, they kinda screen IC's naturally with their infiltrate ability.

Anyway get out there and test this thing as so far I have only used it in one game(but it kicked ascot BTW)
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Old 04 Oct 2007, 11:49   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: AFP on an IC, Worth a Second Look?

Quote:
Originally Posted by israfel420
Thanks for the positive response, I thought this config might be a be a good idea.

To answer your question I did actually consider a drone screen, but I think 7 point Kroot and VP "free" gun drones from Piranhas fit the bill here a little better. For such a task it boils down to a simple matter of expendability. Kroot and free drones have it, unit based drones do not(since they cost 12 points apiece and all). Plus as far as the Kroot are concerned, they kinda screen IC's naturally with their infiltrate ability.

Anyway get out there and test this thing as so far I have only used it in one game(but it kicked ascot BTW)
The thing I like about the drone squad is it has the same movement as the Shas, so can keep up with the Shas and in a possible threat of assault situation the Shas can jump back 6" and the drones jump forward 6" adding some much needed distance between the two if the drones happen to die in the assault (prevents consolidation into the Shas).

I also like the pinning benefit, which believe me has prevented my Shas'El taking damage more than a few times.

I prefer to have my Kroot work autonomously, infiltrating and causing havoc but thats just my play style, Kroot are certainly cheap enough for the meat screen role.

I would advise a few games with both set ups and let us know how it pans out, I am going to try this suit fit out in a few friendly games.
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Old 04 Oct 2007, 13:04   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: AFP on an IC, Worth a Second Look?

Quote:
Originally Posted by israfel420

Of course with my beloved CIB gone I may have to think about reworking my 'O....
In my first ever game of WH40K I ran an 'O with AFP & CIB! I'm not sure if that's legal, but I hit a Ork Trukk with a MP on another suit and then AFP & CIB the Boyz who got out. I seem ro remember it worked well.

If you can field both, then stick a TA on your 'el and give it a try.
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Old 05 Oct 2007, 00:11   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: AFP on an IC, Worth a Second Look?

I had a band of Ork Hard boys ( 20 or so with warboss and Mekboy) chase my Shas'o and 2 other crisis suits during a game once. My O carried an AFP, PR and MP with a hard wired multi tracker. That chase went on for 2+ turns before the game was called and the AFP alone took out about 6 of the baddies. I think I'm going to run him as an 'el from here on out for points considerations though. I'm pleased with the AFB.
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