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My dad thinks Pulse Rifles are overpowered...
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Old 02 Oct 2007, 18:12   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default My dad thinks Pulse Rifles are overpowered...

Explain to him why they are not!

I get constantly sick of him mumbling every time I shoot (no, literally), about how overpowered Pulse Rifles are. Even though he usually manages to outshoot me, and always wins, he still complains.

Can any of you prove him wrong? Mabye give him a bit of advice on how to beat them? (Not that he needs any)

Thanks,

-Lord of the Pit
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Old 02 Oct 2007, 18:20   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: My dad thinks Pulse Rifles are overpowered...

Because they are taken by BS 3 models?

Seriously, Pulse Rifles are balanced against Bolters by the fact that Space Marines are more accurate, can withstand return fire more easily, and can take special and heavy weapons alongside them.
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Old 02 Oct 2007, 18:30   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: My dad thinks Pulse Rifles are overpowered...

Factor in those Markerlights and what happens?-My Dad

Factor in the fact that Fire Warriors cost 10 points and Space Marines cost 15?-My Dad.

Rebuttals?

-Lord of the Pit
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Old 02 Oct 2007, 18:34   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: My dad thinks Pulse Rifles are overpowered...

Firstly, by default, fire warriors can only hit 50% of the time, so only six of your twelve-man squad will hit their target on average. However, this problem is often mitigated by markerlights (presuming, of course, you use them).

From what I can think of in the space of 5 minutes, the reason pulse rifles are so powerful is because fire warriors don't carry heavy weapons. While other armies may not have standard infantry rifles as powerful as the Tau pulse rifle, they are allowed to carry missile launchers, heavy bolters, and generally heavier grades of weaponry within standard infantry squads. Unless you fit your vehicles with seeker missiles, you wouldn't have much in the way of heavy fire support that can be activated by standard infantry.
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Old 02 Oct 2007, 18:35   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: My dad thinks Pulse Rifles are overpowered...

Well, you could remind him that Markerlights are expensive to take, normally only work 50% of the time and relatively easy to destroy in proportion to their cost (particularly Pathfinders).

If you do the math, you will find that in a straight-up gunfight, Fire Warriors are slightly better for their points than Space Marines. But when you factor in the lower Leadership, lower durability, absence of additional weapons, and complete inability to fight in close combat, you start to see why Fire Warriors are only 10 points. If your father persists in complaining about it, just ask him not to use Power Weapons any more, or drop his stats down to 3. He really isn't factoring in most of the statlines.
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Old 02 Oct 2007, 18:36   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: My dad thinks Pulse Rifles are overpowered...

1) Factor in those markerlights and he'll simply have to find a way of, you know, adapting, changing his tactics, stuff like that. What we all have to do when we come up against an army's strengths.
2) Fire Warriors have worse stats across the board than Space Marines. Their Pulse Rifle's all they've got going for them really. Are you calling Space Marines with their straight 4 stats, boltguns and power armour cheesy?

To be honest though, it sounds like you're dad's winding you up. As they so often do. :
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Old 02 Oct 2007, 18:41   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: My dad thinks Pulse Rifles are overpowered...

Pfft, he knows he's beaten.

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Originally Posted by Me
3 Rebuttals. Want to read them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Dad
No. They have their opinions and I have mine.
Any more thoughts?

-Lord of the Pit

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Old 02 Oct 2007, 19:06   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: My dad thinks Pulse Rifles are overpowered...

I could tell him he sounds like a 12 year old girl for you... because he really, really does.

Mech-tau, Jump-Shoot-Jump, all the things he could bitch about, and he picks the least relevant. :
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Old 02 Oct 2007, 19:09   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: My dad thinks Pulse Rifles are overpowered...

Fire Warriors have the same kill ratio against MEQs as Space Marines themselves.

Fire Warriors hit on 4s and wound on 3s.
Marines hit on 3s and wound on 4s.

Fire Warriors are no more killy than space marines.

Marines outrange Fire Warriors. Yes, i know Fire Warriors have a 30" gun, but marine devestator squads with a typical loadout of 4 h.bolters have a 36" range. They then hit on 3s, and kill on 2s. Fire Warriors dont get a shot off. In a straight up shooting match between an FW squad and a Marine squad, the marines will win.

Marines edge out Fire Warriors by having better ranged abilities.

Marines are 'arder than Fire Warriors. Toughness 4 with a 3+ save has twice the surviveability of toughness 3 with a 4+ save against small arms, and yet again, against anything ap4 or better, shows itself to be far superior.

Marines are tougher, by a long shot.

Marines are more versatile. Fire Warriors get str5 guns. Marines get small arms, pistols, close combat weapons, plus heavy bolters, lascannons, missile launchers and plasma guns. seriously, a 12 man FW team is no better (and is worse in fact) than a 4 h.bolter devestator team in all circumstances, and can not do the things a 5 man las/plas squad can do...

Marines edge out Fire Warriors in battlefield utility.
Markerlights.

Cost my tau 180 points to put the best markerlight carriers (Pathfinders) on the board. 8 guys that are t3 with a 4+ save. hit them with your h.bolters and i have no more markerlights.

Quote:
Factor in those Markerlights and what happens?

Factor in the fact that Fire Warriors cost 10 points and Space Marines cost 15?
markerlights. So? see how much they cost before you factor in their uberness.
Points cost. for 5 points more, a marine has twice the surviveability, a hell of a lot more versatility, the same kill rate with a basic gun, far better close ombat ability, and better special rules (ATSKNF). A Marine can do anything. We get a unit that shoots infantry rather decently....
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Old 02 Oct 2007, 19:40   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: My dad thinks Pulse Rifles are overpowered...

Pulse rifles are pretty awesome. Except that they're attached to low BS blue guys who can get wiped out by anyone with a clenched fist.
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