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Surprise? - Tau as a top tier army.
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Old 25 Sep 2007, 02:17   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Surprise? - Tau as a top tier army.

Back when I started playing 40k - 1998? i think? when i put tau on the table against marines, chaos, necrons, whatever, it was pretty much understood that the money was against Tau. The lack of any close combat power of any sort combined with the prevalence of the rhinorush made sure of that. then a little later, v4 came out and rhinorush was no more. However, Tau was still not considered top tier because those considered top tier were things like drop pod army, daemonbomb army, ironwarrior in general, etc.

Then i left the 40k universe for quite a while. However, right before I left, and recently when I talk to those who still play 40k, there is an understanding and a feeling that Tau is one of those power armies... proudly standing shoulder to shoulder with the late daemonbomb army, or the drop pod assault cannon armies. I didn't think about it much then, but this latest whitedwarf brought these thought back to mind by comparing the nidzilla army as being on the same power bar as the mech tau list.

in the light of day, and now at the front of my mind, this is very surprising to me. Is this the concensus now among the general 40k community? Do you think it's true? Is it hype? thoughts?
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Old 25 Sep 2007, 02:35   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Surprise? - Tau as a top tier army.

I know that Mechanized Tau armies are something I greatly fear. I have only one one game against such an army, and it was close. Reminds me of the last Turni I went to, an elimination tournament and the two finalist armies where both mechanized Tau.

But if it a normal foot slogging Tau army (with only a couple of tanks or something) I find they are much easier to defeat, at least for me.
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Old 25 Sep 2007, 03:10   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Surprise? - Tau as a top tier army.

Last year's success of Mech Tau and Mech Eldar has meant most players now include a proliferation of weapons designed to bring down large quantities of heavy skimmers (read: [tankhunting] Autocannons). Mechanized skimmer lists (both Eldar and Tau) are now one of the "serious threats" that you need an answer to, along with drop pod marines, Godzilla 'nids, and infiltrating demon bombs. For this reason, mechanized isn't quite as good as it used to be. Nobody's surprised anymore when you plop down 6 heavy skimmers in a 1850 pt game. The way to powergame with Tau these days is lots of Suits with Sheild Drones all over the place. Infantry born heavy weapons lose to an entire army that can move in the assault phase.
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Old 25 Sep 2007, 03:23   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Surprise? - Tau as a top tier army.

When I finally put down my mechanised Tau army around two years ago it was because I simply couldn't get any pick up games with it. Whenever I told people what my army was they simply refused to play me, saying that it was inevitably going to be a loss for them. That might be because of my reputation or some such at the hobby shops I used to frequent though I don't think so. It was mostly because when faced with the sheer versatility, efficiency, and power of a mechanised Tau army most opponents simply refused to even try, and that still seems to be the case today.
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Old 25 Sep 2007, 03:43   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Surprise? - Tau as a top tier army.

I have encountered the same problem, to a degree, with my mech tau. Though I did face the same thing with my infantry based CSM force a couple years ago, which was responsible for my choice to play tau.
Mech Tau lists do a couple of things very well, Target denial, Dominating the movement phase (though eldar are better than us at this) and saturation fire on elements of the enemy army. Still I have found them to be a fairly unforgiving army, in that a couple of bad descions can leave you crippled. You need to play smart with Mech tau.

I agree that they are now being anticipated to a higher degree. I recently went to a GT in NZ and was the only Mech Tau, The other tau player being suit heavy. There were 3 Nidzilla armies and about 9 eldar armies. The only player I lost to was the Nidzilla that won the tourney. The top 3 places going to nidzilla and 2 eldar players.
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Old 25 Sep 2007, 06:53   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Surprise? - Tau as a top tier army.

Mech Tau is like a rapier in my opinion. You need to be precise on what you want, and to damage that small target fast and effectively. Use it haphazardly and you will break the rapier.

I may not be the best player in my neigbourhood, but with mech Tau I usually can hold out against better players for some time before I falter. Usually against better players, I will always have a tie or a small defeat but if the player is a powergamer that spams on anti-tank weapons, I may be wiped out.. As for players in my standards and players who are weaker, my mech tau will and always paralyze half of their army, while suffering very little casualties on my own.

But even so, Mech Tau is rather annoying for most of the player that had faced me before. They just hate that they have to choose which vehicles that they have to kill first. This is especially true when I decide to use a Fish rush. In escalations, they hate it when they do not know where on earth will they come from.
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Old 25 Sep 2007, 07:10   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Surprise? - Tau as a top tier army.

Mace (mech tau) and I (hybrid eldar) have both expressed to each other that we absolutely hate versing each other.


So yes, mech tau are a top tiered army.


But I must disagree with Crisis Vyper, in an age where mech armies dominate, is spamming anti tank weapons any more powergaming than spamming tanks? It's all on par now. These armies are all just very effective, (this includes the nidzilla force) rather than just plain unfair like the sirenbomb army.
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Old 25 Sep 2007, 07:20   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Surprise? - Tau as a top tier army.

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Originally Posted by crazedmongoose2003
But I must disagree with Crisis Vyper, in an age where mech armies dominate, is spamming anti tank weapons any more powergaming than spamming tanks? It's all on par now. These armies are all just very effective, (this includes the nidzilla force) rather than just plain unfair like the sirenbomb army.
Okay, let me do this again in a much more clearer way.

I am putting in the only army that can spam a crazy amount of anti tank without flinching; Iron Warriors. But now with the new Chaos Space Marines codex coming I guess they will not be able to do that again.

But I admit that Anti-tank spamming is a effective way to go in subduing the Mech list that are out there. It is a big rock-Paper -scissors game out there.

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Old 25 Sep 2007, 16:17   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Surprise? - Tau as a top tier army.

I think I must be the only person who has found a mech style to be....tempermental...

The notation of FoF and Massed Skimmers coming from a footslogging Guard first didn't slip together and I found using other peoples Tacticas that even the three hammerhead support combo went down the drain as fast as any tanks I had fielded in the past.

Although skimmers are good defensively the main trouble is that Tanks are a prime target and fall quickly in a City fight or dense terrain board then the lack of mobility leads to them becoming smoking wreaks after turn 2.

Thus I found mech = dead. Before then I had been playing hybrid and my play style reflects this now rather well. I have tried to build a 'stealth army' which is light on troops focussing on preventing the enemy from moving about the board as he/she wishes. Running 3 or 4 medium squads of Shas'la backed up by a stealth team and then a strong Shas'el and extra suit this runs along with as many snipers I can pack, and a XV-88 and Piranha or 2.

A core tenate of this army is to pin and prevent, by making your opponent react to you and prevent them from making the moves they want (block firelanes, take out flankers, deepstrike tanks etc.). Better than mech as their is little an opponent can really do except take on your Shas'la and Broadside.

Sorry for the rabble,
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Old 25 Sep 2007, 16:59   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Surprise? - Tau as a top tier army.

I think it was Genmotty's army list on this board that influinced me to give stealth a try. Shot denial is key to my small but growing tau army. Mech tau is almost expected ,and it is fun to tell someone you have tau and watch them show up to play with so many squishy heavy weapon teams that they can't deploy them all in cover. JSJ ,infiltrate, and stealth are very hard for static heavy weapon teams to counter. The prevelance of the mech tau lis makes it easy to use shot denial to your advantage because they play paper against your rock only to find out you have scisors.
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