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Tau in the open. Shouldn't be a problem, should it?
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Old 02 Aug 2007, 13:34   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Tau in the open. Shouldn't be a problem, should it?

From a terrain thread in the General section:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Vimes
My Tau seem to function worst on desert boards, though perhaps that's because our limited desert terrain isn't good for hiding suits and skimmers.
My initial thoughts about Tau were that deserts (and other open types of terrain) should really be their preferred place to fight.

Why?
Simply because that would allow them to use the superior range of their weapons! 8)
Opting to fight from just out of range for the enemies weapons would be more efficient than hiding behind objects... >

Sadly enough I've come to understand that the rules aren't designed for this tactic, but rather to nullify it. >
Furthermore; the typical size of gaming tables just doesn't allow you to use standard ("fluffy") tactics and fall back a yard or two if needed to avoid an approaching enemy.

Comments?

Olle
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Old 02 Aug 2007, 13:45   #2 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Tau in the open. Shouldn't be a problem, should it?

Seriously, My tau actually works best in cityfights and heavily-terrained area, while doing worse at plains and desert.

Actually the fluff did say that before the initial arrival of the kroots, the entire Tau army is only limited to hit and run tactics and also raiding. So basically I always believed that they work best in terrain that enables you to do guerilla warfare and assymetrical warfare upon the opponent. In addition the terrain will enable the tau to isolate and focus their firepower upon one section of the opponent's army without much retaliaon from the rest of the opponent's army.


So basically I say that the whole rulkes thing about it is rather fluffy. But if you want desert warfare Tau, you can always read IA3 (Taros campaign) and see how they really fight in the desert. They will just run away and stretch the opponent so far that they began to suffer under the desert heat and the lack of water, and then only striking them when they are weak. They are basically rather opportunistic, and that's why I love playing Tau.
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Old 02 Aug 2007, 13:47   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau in the open. Shouldn't be a problem, should it?

Long weapon ranges and open fields of fire with no cover would work... if you're playing the long way of a 4X6 or 4X8 board or something like that. but if you're playing the width, then our weapon ranges usually are broken by LOS or the edge of the board first.
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Old 02 Aug 2007, 13:52   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tau in the open. Shouldn't be a problem, should it?

This is so wrong... open tables are the worst thing that can happen to tau (unless ffacing a pure CC army). We are easily outgunned and outranged by most other armies, like guard or chaos. Our big guns may have fancy ranges, but tau are still an army for intermediate fire. We have no artillery, remember?

the only weapons that outrange other armies are ioncannons and railguns, not really a big threat compared to guard artillery, is it?

That is it: As crisis vyper already said, your view on the fluff is somewhat mistaken.

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Old 02 Aug 2007, 13:58   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau in the open. Shouldn't be a problem, should it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trogdor
This is so wrong... open tables are the worst thing that can happen to tau (unless ffacing a pure CC army). We are easily outgunned and outranged by most other armies, like guard or chaos. Our big guns may have fancy ranges, but tau are still an army for intermediate fire. We have no artillery, remember?
Yeah, and even with a pure CC army, they will more often than niot have the speed to reach the tau lines and kill us all.
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Old 02 Aug 2007, 14:03   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Tau in the open. Shouldn't be a problem, should it?

I agree with Crisis Vyper. My Tau work best in dense terrain. In fact, my last game was a 1000 pt game in dense terrain. The objective was to capture three bunkers against Marines. I thought I was screwed, but the large amount of pulse fire I had scoured out the bunkers as I approached. I pretty much wiped out his army, while only losing a few drones and fire warriors. Oh, and my stealth team, who were exposed running for the last bunker. The terrain kept units in other bunkers from firing at my units as I focussed on one bunker at a time.

I'll take dense terrain or Cityfight everytime over open boards. I suppose a static Tau army would be good in an open board. 6 squads of fire warriors is pretty cheap, add 3 squads of broad sides and some deathrains and you might not need artillery.

I work in Yemen in the desert. This desert is rocky and laced with big canyons and hills. Lot's of cover.
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Old 02 Aug 2007, 15:24   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau in the open. Shouldn't be a problem, should it?

Another point in favor of dense terrain is the Tau's indirect fire advantage.

Typical enemy army indirect fire: 1 basilisk/defiler (if that)
Typical Tau army indirect fire: 2~3 skimmers with smart missile systems, X crisis suits JSJing (functionally indirect fire)
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Old 02 Aug 2007, 15:39   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau in the open. Shouldn't be a problem, should it?

Olle P,

Tau actually don't work that well on an open board. Yes, they have good armour, but that's not the point. The reason they really excel on boards with lots of terrain is because their tactics revolve around usage of terrain. Looking at your quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Vimes
My Tau seem to function worst on desert boards, though perhaps that's because our limited desert terrain isn't good for hiding suits and skimmers.
Crisis Suits are big and tough, and they've got great armour, but they have a fairly low Toughness, and their maximum range is 36" to shoot. This means that practically ANY heavy weapon out there can target them if they're within shooting range (most heavy weapons are about 36" in range, if not more), easily wound them, and pierce their armour. Not to mention Insta-kill them on the spot. That's why the Jump-Shoot-Jump tactic is so favored by Tau players. Jump out cover, shoot your opponent a bunch, and then jump back into cover. Very annoying for enemies to face. And to do the J-S-J, you need cover to jump in and out of, and keep invulnerable, and out of LOS.

Tau Skimmers are similar. They really hit their high mark when they have a lot of terrain to skim over. They can be behind a building that blocks their LOS one turn, then jump out, light up a unit with heavy fire. You're instantly on the offensive with them, and if you have a lot of cover, around, it's easy to escape units that are hunting your skimmers, and flank them, etc. So that you're on the offensive.

Not to mention a unit that completely ROCKS when given cover to hide in; Kroot. Stick them 8" in a forest piece and just light up any units that come near. Most enemy units will only be able to see through 6" of forest, so you're safe, all the while able to still see them.

Plus, having a game on an open field is never fun. It's just a shoot fest. You want cover, and terrain, so that you can actually benefit from tactics.
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Old 02 Aug 2007, 16:04   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tau in the open. Shouldn't be a problem, should it?

Most of you seem to just concur with my initial statements: The rules oppose a stand-off tactic and the available space doesn't allow the manoeuvrability required.

Perhaps I was also a bit vague regarding the range I'm thinking about...
The vast majority of weapons in WH40k have a range of 24" or less. Most of the common Tau weapons, burst cannons and plasma rifles excluded, have ranges >24".
Tau can really dominate the (admittedly narrow) 24"-30" range band, which is out of range for most enemy weapons.
Unfortunately there's the 36"-48" range band where for example IG have a plethora of heavy weapons to pick from while Tau has virtually nothing, ... but those heavies typically can't shoot the turn they moved into that range, allowing potential victims to move into another range band...

Cheers
Olle
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Old 02 Aug 2007, 16:19   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau in the open. Shouldn't be a problem, should it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olle P
Most of you seem to just concur with my initial statements: The rules oppose a stand-off tactic and the available space doesn't allow the manoeuvrability required.
On the contrary. Since most of our stuff are skimers, maneuveribility is of paramount importance, as we use terrain to our advantage. In terms of stand-off armies you are better off with Tyranids or IG for that for they have the numbers to do it. But for Tau, we know not of numbers for we do not often have alot of troops on the table in proportion to those armies. So what we lack in numbers we more than make up for it in cunning and guile.

For what do we need to do a stand-off shooting with the opponent will just use attrition towards you? Why not infuriate the opponent and let them come to you in blind rage, all while you pick them off in a ruthless and cautious manner while negating his advantage? The thing about some armies is that they can afford to throw troops away like they are just tissue paper, while some armies prize their troops like they are made out of Lapis Lazuli. We are in the middle, but it is a general terms even among all armies that the minimixation of casualties while dishing out the maximum casualty upon the opponent is alwasy better.

This is also considered maneuvering in a sense, for you are controlling the opponent with the choices that you make so that the opponent to play on your term, not theirs. This is the basis of all victories.

Quote:
Perhaps I was also a bit vague regarding the range I'm thinking about...
The vast majority of weapons in WH40k have a range of 24" or less. Most of the common Tau weapons, burst cannons and plasma rifles excluded, have ranges >24".
Tau can really dominate the (admittedly narrow) 24"-30" range band, which is out of range for most enemy weapons.
Unfortunately there's the 36"-48" range band where for example IG have a plethora of heavy weapons to pick from while Tau has virtually nothing, ... but those heavies typically can't shoot the turn they moved into that range, allowing potential victims to move into another range band...
Well, actually we are not that good in terms of that range band. Other armies have either more weapons or have more men to use it. We have almost all the ranges, but we have not the specialization of the range like IG and SM. But what we can do is to concentrate firepower easier than those armies and at where they are needed most. That is the strenght of Tau; Concentreted area firepower. In this term, there is no such thing as an overkill, for you know every shot counts, as compared to an IG regiment where only some parts of their elements able to kill a certain element (This is true for staic Ig though, not really true with Hybrid, Mech, Drop and infiltrating IG).

So yeah, we may not dominate any of the ranges, but we sure can overdominate the Concentrated are Firepower effect.
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