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Damage or Dice?
View Poll Results: Do you go for many dice or a few good ones?
Power house BABY! 9 37.50%
I carry 64 dice just in case 15 62.50%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 21 Jul 2007, 07:58   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Damage or Dice?

Ok so Iím going to make all the different things for D&D witch I sorta made up (sorta so I don't take all credit)

Here is the theory of Damage or Dice

Damage is taking a large amount of heavy weapons that will deal as much damage in a few amounts of shots. (Hammer heads, Broadsides, Crisis teams)

Dice is the idea of having so many shots that enough will break through and kill them. (Stealth teams, Kroot, Fire warriors)

There are many many many pros and cons of each that I will go though.

Damage:
As we are well know for our rail guns of horrible establishments. We like to abuse this as much as possible. With floating str10 ap1 weapons moving 12Ē a turn blowing everything in sight is always a good feeling. These tactics are awesome ageist well awesome enemies. One such is the power of the space marines! Them and there 3+ save is no match for you! Blowing them away with fusions and rail guns just running over them with a fury of Blitzkrieg. Ironically the weakness of this tactic is a huge fury of angry peasants with lasguns.

If your fighting a power hungry army the problem is they are just as bad straight back to you. I mean sure your Rail guns are fun but so is a tank that can shoot 3 lascannon shots a TURN. These will plow through any crisis suits of any type. Although we do love our skimmers and some times think they are indestructible it can well turn on us. I am going to assume a hammer head has Decoy launchers and a multi tracker. And your moving 7 inches a turn.

Letís just say your hit by a lascannon as most likely will be the case fighting the marines. Auto glances and will be a 4+ (everything includes being destroyed.)
52% unable to fire
18% your rail gun is gone.
18% you will be unable to move or fire
22% your tank is toast.
Thatís only one shot. I wonít go into if he has more that shooting phase. Thatís only one shot and can even be shot from a simple heavy weapons holding marine. But there are great advantages! Like hitting on a 3+ and penetrating an armor 14 on a 4+ then destroying it on yet another 4+ assuming you penetrate it like the chart above thatís a 50% chance of destroying it and both have the same rolls needed.

Things with high armor and lots of wounds fringe on the might of your army. But the cons are almost self explanatory. If there are lots of guys you might have a problem. Some times your sub ammunitions just doesnít quite cut it. with heavy weapons teams you might for some good rolls kill only 3 guys on a 3 lascannon squad you might be in for a bit of trouble. Especially when there in cover! So thatís the other problem is those pesky cover saves but thatís where the glory of Dice shines!

------------------------------------------------------------

Dice: Dice like Dice! Its quite simple really! All those marines tend to have some problems with two squads of fire warriors get in that rapid fire range and blow you to hell! Dice players (like myself) like lots of units that fire lots of shots. And with those shots any sort of gain on our part tend to help A LOT! Thatís why marker lights are so great for dice players! 12 FWs in rapid fire range normally only hit 12 shots but with two markerlights now they hit 20 shots! Thatís 4 shots hitting per markerlight. Its like adding 2 FW to the combat that are in rapid fire range. But I cant just count numbers all day we have to get to why its really good!

Ok here is the biggest advantage Dice players have over power. The saves, things like orcs or imperial guard run at the sight of our numbers of dice we carry to each game! But its not just them although the tougher guys like marines tend to be a lot more trouble here is where dice is better over then Damage players. The cover saves. When a marine is in cover a rail gun hitting and wounding tend to not be so bad when there in a building. That AP1 damage players look for is now almost gone. But what does it matter to a dice player? NONE! Its still the same armor save they are taking so in cover or not numbers hug them trees like no tomorrow try not to get hit and fire as much as they can!

Lets shove some MATHHAMMER into this! A marine costs 15 points (sorry GW but not they type of marine) and a FW costs 10 so three FWs make two marines.

Letís say they are shooting at 24 inches. The basic range, 2 shots hitting on 3s and wounding on 3s to a 4+ save. 44% to kill a fire warrior.

We are hitting on 4s wounding on 3s on a 3+ save. But with three shots not two. 33% to kill a marine.

FWs kill 5 points of marines
Marines kill 4.4 points of a Fire warrior

So all and all we beat them at a shoot out. So they decide to run at us leaving us shots and them to huff without shots.

Now add this to a large scale with lots of units and marker lights they have a bit of a problem on there hand.

Im sure that this will go more indepth as the topic moves on so ill stop here. Its 4am and im tired.
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Old 21 Jul 2007, 08:02   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Damage or Dice?

Your last example of mathhammer is flawed. Marines don't just tote bolters; they more oft than not will be toting heavy weapons, such as a Heavy Bolter, which pulps Fire Warriors like, well, a Rail Gun pulps a Marine.
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Old 21 Jul 2007, 08:11   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Damage or Dice?

Ya i know... but chances are ill have a marker light and a seeker missile. i would just showing a small example... There can be a lot of flaws such as they have jet packs or im being shot at by other guys. this small example was just setting up the foundation showing that more dice and more guy can overcome stronger guys.
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Old 21 Jul 2007, 18:46   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Damage or Dice?

This is kinda supprising i was expeciting more people to choose damage with them and there three hammerheads with loads of crisis suits
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Old 21 Jul 2007, 20:17   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Damage or Dice?

That's because both theories are inherently flawed at best and intrinsically anathema to Tau at worst. The key to Tau is a combined arms approach, in which you use an optimized combination of the best you can have. So you would neither focus on "Damage" nor "Dice"; you would have some units focus on "Damage" and some focus on "Dice". In this way, strengths are maximized and weaknesses minimized.

A Railhead will not be hunting Marines with solid slug rounds, it will be hunting tanks. If it does go after Marines, especially those in cover, a wise general will use Submunition rounds in addition to either its burst cannons or smart missile system, in which case it is as effective as more than a few Fire Warriors.
Now, whereas more dice are certainly an advantage, this is eclipsed when the power of shots yields greater rewards than a few extra shots. Such cases are against Vehicles, especially those of AV12 and up, where Pulse rounds are useless and against extremely tough troops such as Terminators.

I'll say it again. A wise Tau general will use both and pick their targets accordingly. There's a reason why you'll use the Stealthsuits and Fire Warriors to take on those Guardsmen whilst your Railguns pick on that Leman Russ - because there are always situations where you'll need those few hard-hitting shots and where the many weaker shots are more appropriate.

And I'm sure people would take you more seriously if you could differentiate between "there", "their", and "they're".
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Old 21 Jul 2007, 20:35   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Damage or Dice?

You have no clue the crap i get becaues of my spelling. i have tryed to fix it and it gets on my nerves when people complain about it. if you can understand it then great. if you cant and you can fix it for me... Better. I'm sorry if I'm grammatically challenged I really am.
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Old 21 Jul 2007, 21:17   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Damage or Dice?

Why not both? Every shot a power shot, and more power shots is always good.


As Abael said, we are the Combined arms force. We do not have the numbers of IG, nor the qulaity of Space marines in each of our units. So we often specialized our choices to kill what they kill best.
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Old 22 Jul 2007, 02:04   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Damage or Dice?

After playing a Kroot Mercenary army, both my Tau playing and my Merc playing have gone from Damage over to Dice. You never can count on that one hit to complete the job, especially in a pinch. It is because of that that I like to overpower my opponent with many, many light hits, and several dozen medium-high damage attacks. I have dropped my hammerheads in favor of Sky rays with piranha forward support (2D6+8 penetrates with far better odds than D6+10, as you only need a total of 6 on two dice to punch through a leman russ, while the markerlights pump up the number of hits (dice) my other units can pump out. I run large kroot squads forward of my army in cover, as a mass-shot stall in a place out of my "danger zone" (cover blocks LOS, so I don't have to worry about losing my firing dice because of CC in front of my army).
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Old 22 Jul 2007, 02:40   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Damage or Dice?

I put my vote for damage. Here's my reason.
A lot of shots is a good thing, nothing wrong with that. But in the end of the day, the price I see for all those shots is a lot of armor saves for my opponent (MEQ's). A good roll (which happens surprisingly often) is all they need to nullify that multitude of shots. So IMO, id rather rob him of that chance all together by using high AP weapons, i.e. Damage (far too often I've seen not even one MEQ die to a barrage of shots just because of their stupidly high armor save >).
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