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JSJ and difficult terrain
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Old 19 Jul 2007, 23:04   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default JSJ and difficult terrain

I have a question about jet packs and movement:
A jet pack model can move 6" in the move phase, either as standard infantry move or as jet pack move. Difficult terrain imposes the relevant rule (difficult terrain test if infantry move, dangerous terrain test if jet pack).
If the jet pack model moves in the assault phase, is that considered a jet pack move or an infantry move? Or is it at the player's discretion?
Thanks all.
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Old 19 Jul 2007, 23:13   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: JSJ and difficult terrain

I think In the assault phase it counts as a jetpack move, but if you land outside of the terrain then you wont have to take a test
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Old 19 Jul 2007, 23:37   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: JSJ and difficult terrain

The assault move is ONLY jet pack, reflecting that the suit leapt through the air to fire and drifts slowly back down to ground level. If this movement lands them in terrain, they must take a Dangerous Terrain test.
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Old 19 Jul 2007, 23:54   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: JSJ and difficult terrain

Movement phase:

may either walk into difficult terrain, in which case, roll as infantry
OR
may jump in, taking a dangerous terrain test

Assault phase:

MUST use jet packs. If you end in dangerous terrain, you must take the check.

Note that only ending in dangerous terrain do you half to take the check. You can jump out as much as you want.

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Old 20 Jul 2007, 04:50   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: JSJ and difficult terrain

makes sense, but do you know where i could find the rules that define this jump/walk for normal movement, and jump pack only for assault?
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Old 20 Jul 2007, 05:34   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: JSJ and difficult terrain

Actually, I'm almost positive that's wrong, unless there's a Rule somewhere I missed. (I didn't see anything in the FAQ)

And for Suupah, I've included the pages and paragraphs and what not.

W40k Rulebook, Page 55. "Jump Infantry" Heading. "Movement phase" subheading. for the indication of Jump/Walk optional in movement.

However, it should be foot only for assault. Right side of that same page "Assault Phase" subheading indicates that Jump Infantry assault 6" on foot. Since the "Jet Pack" subheading doesn't say that that part changed, BUT it says that it "moves" 6" regardless of assaulting.

So, we have 2 possibilities.

1. That the option of Jumping or Running is dependent on the word "move" and that "assaulting" forces running and therefore the Jetpack may either use its Jets or run, unless its Assaulting in its assault phase then it must run.

2. That the option of running or using jump packs is dependent on the phase. If the phase is the factor, then we can jump or Run in the Movement phase but we MUST run during the assault phase because nothing in the Jet Pack section changes HOW the Jump Pack moves in the assault phase by being a Jet pack, just that it doesn't have to be an assault.


Personally, I'm inclined to believe the first one, because if the Jet Pack HAD to use its Jets in the Assault phase then the Battlesuit would not be able to assault because the Jump Infantry must be running in order to assault. Therefore, the jet pack has the option to run or Jump in either case because it is "moving" and not "assaulting" However, when doing the latter then it must run.

From an outside the rules logic perspective, what difference is it if the Tau jump forward and then slowly walk backwards while firing? (Afterall, battle doens't happen in turns, but in a great simultaneous action.) or if they fire while jumping forward and then walk back. Or run up 6" and then jump pack back 6"? They all result in the same except for the test that become necessary. In the second case, the Jet Pack isn't being used in the Assault phase to do what its supposed to do and so it becomes backwards to be required to run during the Assault Phase. In fact, running during the assault phase is backwards in any case, but the rules don't explicitly state that you must use the jump version of the movement in the assault phase.

In this case, you can have your cake and eat it too.
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Old 20 Jul 2007, 08:06   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: JSJ and difficult terrain

In the assault phase you can do both (walk/jump) under different circumstances.

If your making an ASSAULT move (i.e. assaulting a unit) you walk like infantry.

If your making a REGULAR move (i.e. not assaulting but making the 2nd jump in the assault phase) your using the Jet-pack. I mean think about it, why can you make a move in the assault phase? Because the model has a Jet-Pack, it only makes sense that they must use the equipment to actually get to use those special rules, Duh.
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Old 20 Jul 2007, 08:10   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: JSJ and difficult terrain

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Orange
If your making a REGULAR move (i.e. not assaulting but making the 2nd jump in the assault phase) your using the Jet-pack. I mean think about it, why can you make a move in the assault phase? Because the model has a Jet-Pack, it only makes sense that they must use the equipment to actually get to use those special rules, Duh.
Keep in mind that we are talking about GW, here. What is obvious with logic may not always be represented well in the rules.

But yes, I agree that assault movement for Jetpacks is on foot if charging and in the air if no charges are being made.
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Old 20 Jul 2007, 08:27   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: JSJ and difficult terrain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanaris
Keep in mind that we are talking about GW, here. What is obvious with logic may not always be represented well in the rules.
Yes but the Unit entry does say
"In the movement phase, they only move 6" when using their packs, but are allowed to move 6" in the Assault phase."

The Jet-pack entry clearly shows that the jet-pack is being used.

Look at the Jump Infantry section as well.
"Jump infantry can move up to 12"...instead of the normal 6" move. ... This is optional and they can chose to move as normal infantry..."

The Jump pack entry says absolutely nothing about a jump-pack being used, it is instead inferred that the jump-pack must be used to move more then 6", and is stated that this move is different from normal infantry movement.

Now normal infantry movement in the assault phase 1st requires that you assault a unit, and 2nd has the unit move on foot. I think we can agree that using the jet-pack to make a non-assault 6" move in the assault phase is nothing like normal infantry movement, thus I think we can again infer here that the jet-pack is being used, similar to how GW inferred that jump infantry use their jump packs to make a 12" move which is different from a normal infantry move.

A little inference is required, but I think the rules are fairly clear in this regard.
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Old 20 Jul 2007, 13:48   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: JSJ and difficult terrain

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Orange

"In the movement phase, they only move 6" when using their packs, but are allowed to move 6" in the Assault phase."

The Jet-pack entry clearly shows that the jet-pack is being used.
You're "half" right. the Jet-pack entry clearly shows that the jet pack is being used in that sentence... in the MOVEMENT phase, but not the assault phase. I think what they may have been trying to convey is: IF the jet pack is used in the movement phase, then you can move 6" in the assault phase however you like. The Jet pack is only specified for the movement phase, NOT the assault phase.
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