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Pathfinders as tankhunting Squad
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Old 20 Jun 2007, 15:19   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Pathfinders as tankhunting Squad

I know that Tau have a str10 AP1, easily-accesible antitank gun, but I thought of giving my pathfinders EMP grenades. These grenades are actually stellar weapons, the only real problem being that you have to get to the enemy to use them. Since pathfinders are mechanised anyway and have small squads, I thought it might make sense to give them EMP grenades and a few seeker missiles to ease my reliance on the railgun or fusion blaster. What do you guys think?
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Old 20 Jun 2007, 15:27   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Pathfinders as tankhunting Squad

Meh, I dont really like this idea. There are just sooo many other good tank hunting opprotunities, including Railheads, Broadsides, Pihranna, Ionheads (to an extent), Skyrays, EMP wielding Gue'sev'a, and deep-striking fusion suits. All of these are extremely good at tankhunting and/or very cheap.

So why waste the markerlights of the pathfinders? To make a pathfinder squad good at tank-hunting, you are spending a ton of points. And with how good markerlights are, theres no excuse for wasting them.
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Old 20 Jun 2007, 15:28   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Pathfinders as tankhunting Squad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joebob22
I know that Tau have a str10 AP1, easily-accesible antitank gun, but I thought of giving my pathfinders EMP grenades. These grenades are actually stellar weapons, the only real problem being that you have to get to the enemy to use them. Since pathfinders are mechanised anyway and have small squads, I thought it might make sense to give them EMP grenades and a few seeker missiles to ease my reliance on the railgun or fusion blaster. What do you guys think?
No...simply no.

Even with the fish you cannot zip in and assault with the grenades...and if you try to use grenades you cannot ue marjerlights...no lights no seekers...

In general the railgun will do just prime!
Second best is the missile pod, will kill anything up to AV12.
If need be use the fusion, not as good, but hey.

And on the last place: Grenades....worthless...
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Old 20 Jun 2007, 15:37   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Pathfinders as tankhunting Squad

Ok, I see your guyses point. Blasting tanks is probably better left to the railguns, but Gue'sa'va are a good idea, because EMP grenades are extrememly good because high armor isn't relevant. BTW, A deep-striking commander w/ a fusion gun kills are LEAST 1 tank, almost everyone of my games.
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Old 20 Jun 2007, 15:46   #5 (permalink)
Xan
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Default Re: Pathfinders as tankhunting Squad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joebob22
Ok, I see your guyses point. Blasting tanks is probably better left to the railguns, but Gue'sa'va are a good idea, because EMP grenades are extrememly good because high armor isn't relevant. BTW, A deep-striking commander w/ a fusion gun kills are LEAST 1 tank, almost everyone of my games.
Why commander , all you need is normal suit with TL FB and TA runs only 53p and is quite expendable.
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Old 20 Jun 2007, 15:57   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Pathfinders as tankhunting Squad

Ok, once again: NO twinlinkink of those darned fusionblasters! Take a missilepod and Fusionblaster! I have done the math here SO often. I really do not want to prove it to each and every user here one by one. So simply believe me: FB+ MP is up to 40% more effective than TL FB.

And Gue´vesa are Klkn. Sad but true. Besides they are 100% not official.

EMP grenades look good on the paper, but won´t kick it in-game.
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Gamestatistics ´07:

[WHFB] Dwarfs
9 victorious slaughters/ 7wins/ 5 draws/ 7 losses

[WH40k] Tau
17victorious slaughters/ 10wins/ 2draw/ 1 loss
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Old 20 Jun 2007, 16:55   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Pathfinders as tankhunting Squad

I have bagged DREADNOUGHTS with a sarge's EMP grenade, not to mention a devilfish, predator, and it would arse-wreck a monolith. Considering my friend plays a Necron phalanx w/ monolith in a 1000pt game, its hard to kil with railgunsl AND keep enough troops to outnumber. Thats where I may use the EMPs.
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Old 20 Jun 2007, 17:59   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Pathfinders as tankhunting Squad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joebob22
I have bagged DREADNOUGHTS with a sarge's EMP grenade, not to mention a devilfish, predator, and it would D'yi-wreck a monolith. Considering my friend plays a Necron phalanx w/ monolith in a 1000pt game, its hard to kil with railgunsl AND keep enough troops to outnumber. Thats where I may use the EMPs.
So what? A single pulserifle might take out a rhino, but it is surely not the best possible way to do so.

And on the monoliths: So, you prefer to go THAT close with firewarriors, just to try and roll a single 6, and another 6 with your sarge to score a penetrating hit? Seriously? That is a chance of 2,7% to blast that monolith!
The broadside will do it with a TL roll on 4+ and penetrate on a 4+, from up to 72" away! The chances to wrech that monolith are 18,75, the finest you will possibly get in the entire game.

Let´s see: 6 firewarriors with EMP sum up to 78 points. They of course have 6 times the chance of only one EMP to blast the mono: 16,67%. more expensive trhan one broadside, but less powerfull. And harder to use, relying on optimized circumstances, such as comig near that monolith, not being shot to pieces (which is fairly easy compared to the broadside) and so on.

Trust me, if the EMP was a viable option more people would take it. In fact NO grenades in the tauersenal are worth taking...

But if you are going to field static firewarriors (not the best choice) you can give the ´ui an EMP if the points are spare...

Greetz, Trogdor

I do not think
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Old 20 Jun 2007, 18:38   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Pathfinders as tankhunting Squad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trogdor
Ok, once again: NO twinlinkink of those darned fusionblasters! Take a missilepod and Fusionblaster! I have done the math here SO often. I really do not want to prove it to each and every user here one by one. So simply believe me: FB+ MP is up to 40% more effective than TL FB
Humor me Trogdor... Sunforge is taken to counter AV14 tanks Particularly Land Raider. At this situation missile pod can't scratch the AV14. If you will use Sunforge to counter monolith... aaa well... Your opponent will laugh in your face.

53 point Sunforge is a deepstriking weapon. Nothing more nothing less. I don't see why would you use it on anything else. It is good at what it does.

Fire surge ( MP + FB ) is required MT and if you want TA and HW MT you need extra 5 points. -> 58 points. I though you were the one that takes BSF over flamers to save 1 point? You want me to quote you? ;D

As final note on Sunforge -> If deepstrike is in play I would prefer it to Fire surge any time versus Mechanized MEQ/TEQ or Armored componies.
If deep strike isn't in play, -> Deathrains + Railguns => problem solved.

P.S. You know how I feel about mathhammer. IMO its all about how does it fit in the tactical aspect of your army. For me, merging Deathrains and sunforges isn't a good Idea.

***This statement was made to cool you down. Stop attacking other members and be pationted.***

---------------------------------------------------->

Unfortunately as much as I do not want to agree with Trogodor on EMP count...
I have to -> At this point EMP is useless.

You know why? Because we do not have units to carry it. If you want to use the whole units of FW mounted on fish just to take out one tank... well I can't stop you...

You know why other races have success with grenades and we don't? Lets look at the best in the business -> Eldar

Eldar's swooping Hawks are the best at this. With free Grenade packs (includes Highwired grenades which are better then ours), deepstriking at any moment in game, jump packs, fleet & intersept. This spells = SUCCESS. And they can actually survive after they made an attack. Plus they have a lot of different rolls.

Lets look at Assalt Mariens. They may be don't have all the perks of eldar, but they have power armor, T4 and Melta bombs => that gives them rock solid chance to deliver those bombs when and where they need to. And then assalt whoever they want.

Don't forget they both can use deepstrike.

And what do we got? Nothing! Gue'vresa... yeah if your opponent allow it.. and even then its ain't that good.

----------------------------------------------------------------------->

[size=14pt]Bottom Line[/size]

Grenades are given to someone who can use them and survive. Or at least be really cheap. Given them for "what if?" is ridiculous and TOO expensive. Unless you play static tau and expecting deepstrikeing Monolith... And then I would put more Railguns instead.

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Old 20 Jun 2007, 19:18   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Pathfinders as tankhunting Squad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_dog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trogdor
Ok, once again: NO twinlinkink of those darned fusionblasters! Take a missilepod and Fusionblaster! I have done the math here SO often. I really do not want to prove it to each and every user here one by one. So simply believe me: FB+ MP is up to 40% more effective than TL FB
Humor me Trogdor... Sunforge is taken to counter AV14 tanks Particularly Land Raider. At this situation missile pod can't scratch the AV14. If you will use Sunforge to counter monolith... aaa well... Your opponent will laugh in your face.

53 point Sunforge is a deepstriking weapon. Nothing more nothing less. I don't see why would you use it on anything else. It is good at what it does.

Fire surge ( MP + FB ) is required MT and if you want TA and HW MT you need extra 5 points. -> 58 points. I though you were the one that takes BSF over flamers to save 1 point? You want me to quote you? ;D

As final note on Sunforge -> If deepstrike is in play I would prefer it to Fire surge any time versus Mechanized MEQ/TEQ or Armored componies.
If deep strike isn't in play, -> Deathrains + Railguns => problem solved.

P.S. You know how I feel about mathhammer. IMO its all about how does it fit in the tactical aspect of your army. For me, merging Deathrains and sunforges isn't a good Idea.

***This statement was made to cool you down. Stop attacking other members and be pationted.***

---------------------------------------------------->

Unfortunately as much as I do not want to agree with Trogodor on EMP count...
I have to -> At this point EMP is useless.

You know why? Because we do not have units to carry it. If you want to use the whole units of FW mounted on fish just to take out one tank... well I can't stop you...

You know why other races have success with grenades and we don't? Lets look at the best in the business -> Eldar

Eldar's swooping Hawks are the best at this. With free Grenade packs (includes Highwired grenades which are better then ours), deepstriking at any moment in game, jump packs, fleet & intersept. This spells = SUCCESS. And they can actually survive after they made an attack. Plus they have a lot of different rolls.

Lets look at Assalt Mariens. They may be don't have all the perks of eldar, but they have power armor, T4 and Melta bombs => that gives them rock solid chance to deliver those bombs when and where they need to. And then assalt whoever they want.

Don't forget they both can use deepstrike.

And what do we got? Nothing! Gue'vresa... yeah if your opponent allow it.. and even then its ain't that good.
And here we go again... TL fusion for 53 points, eh? Against Land Raiders, hmm? ;D

Quite funny, actually. Land Raiders are a rare sight as they are pricy and not reliable enough. But well.

We have a chance of 2/3 that the crisis will not come down where intended, with a good chance of it coming down more than 6" away.
Then we have a 3/4 chance to hit, followed by 26/36 to penetrate, then needing a 4+ to destroy it. Comes down to a 27,1% chance to destry that vehicle, IF the deepstriking was successful.

And here we are: Arguing about a list that can take on ALL commers and you came up with Land Raides... a rare unit as I already mentioned. And one that only 4 armies can take: Witch- and demonhunters, space marines and chaos. All of them have better units to use, but meh.

So you seriously suggest a single crisis to take up one of three elitechoices, just to be prepared for the landraider? Because against ALL other vehicles the configuration with missile pod and fusion blaster is way more effective.

Quote:
P.S. You know how I feel about mathhammer. IMO its all about how does it fit in the tactical aspect of your army. For me, merging Deathrains and sunforges isn't a good Idea.
I did not know and frankly I do not care how you feel about mathematics. But it is a indisputable fact and allows me to calculate the benefits of certain choices I could make. I will use this tool... if you do not want to, your loss.

Quote:
Fire surge ( MP + FB ) is required MT and if you want TA and HW MT you need extra 5 points. -> 58 points. I though you were the one that takes BSF over flamers to save 1 point? You want me to quote you? Grin
Hardly a good comparison, but indeed showing on what level you try to argue.
The BSF will not affect the performance of the deathrain, same for the flamer. So I chose the cheaper one.

With TA I can actually raise the performance by a certain degree. And if my math will tell me that this increase in will do the trick then I will surely spend the points.

So yes, I would certainly spend 5 extra points to increase the effectiveness of my suit against ALL but one vehicle in the game by up to 230%?

O yes,it IS a good idea to not use TL fusionblaster.

Quote:
Unfortunately as much as I do not want to agree with Trogodor on EMP count...
I have to -> At this point EMP is useless.
;D Always listen to the BURNiNATOR ;D
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Gamestatistics ´07:

[WHFB] Dwarfs
9 victorious slaughters/ 7wins/ 5 draws/ 7 losses

[WH40k] Tau
17victorious slaughters/ 10wins/ 2draw/ 1 loss
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