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Not just slightly communist, but slightly fascist too?
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Old 11 Jun 2007, 12:27   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Not just slightly communist, but slightly fascist too?

I was just thinking, you know how eveyrone says the Tau are communistic, well with their background, they can draw from fascist parts too. They remind me of the Nazis, in the ways that the Auns are Hitler, and the ravaged empire equaling out to be the ravaged german empire after world war I. THen, after they rallied, had a sense of Manifest destiny, and expanded out across europe, ie; The galaxy. This makes perfect sense, and was wondering what other theories and ideas on things like this you guys might have.
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Old 11 Jun 2007, 12:50   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Not just slightly communist, but slightly t too?

Nope the Tau xeno Social-Economic system is like its says in the name 'xeno' or Alien in English.

It is a common misconception to describe the Tau as 'Communists' or even to use human examples of extrem socialism to describe this race in 40k.

Why? Because Humans are Humans and Tau are not Humans, hence the said emotions and feelings don't apply. Second the Taus sense of Honour, duty and place within society (respect) are diffrent to humans. Thirdly the Tau have a diffrent economic system to us Humans hence you cannot start applying a Human system to describe them.

Although their may be similarity's in the concepts, it is NOT one in the same. However it is quite fitting as you say...

However I do have my personal theory that the Aun had a big conspiracy theory that stems from the Eldar, but the Tau themselves forgot in and perpetuates a lie with is the only thing holding the Empire together and hence it is important for the Tau race that this is held in tact, but that is beside the point.

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Old 11 Jun 2007, 16:29   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Not just slightly communist, but slightly t too?

I think that the Tau have a society where technology takes over the dirty work(except for fighting) and there is a taboo against violence. There is also no greed. This makes Tau into something that none of us has ever seen.
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Old 11 Jun 2007, 17:44   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Not just slightly communist, but slightly t too?

Hindu Caste system
Confucian understanding of one's place in life
Utilitarian drive for the Greater good.

And let's not forget the british "I know what's best for you, so eat Tau'va B!^(#"

Ofcourse all of the above works best when grounded upon the categorical imperative, and undeniable truth of burning plasma.
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Old 11 Jun 2007, 21:45   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Not just slightly communist, but slightly t too?

@ Genmotty

That wasnt the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make was that Fascism, and communism, both are shown in the ways of the Tau one way or another. My question was whether you guys have made any other comparisons at all with anything else. And also you could compare the Tau with these systems of government because the Tau were CREATED by humans. The people at Games workshop made this race and could of been influenced by anything to make the Tau. I would back your comment, if the tau were actually a sentient race that evolved all on their own. But their not, their a made up race that have common ground between the way they govern their empire, and the ways fascism and communism are run. Thats what I was trying to get across, and wanted to know what other things might have cropped up while you were thinking on this.


......

And why was my title edited, why was Fascist edited out?
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Old 11 Jun 2007, 21:51   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Not just slightly communist, but slightly t too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Actual
Hindu Caste system
Confucian understanding of one's place in life
Utilitarian drive for the Greater good.

And let's not forget the british "I know what's best for you, so eat Tau'va B!^(#"

Ofcourse all of the above works best when grounded upon the categorical imperative, and undeniable truth of burning plasma.
What do the last two parts have to do with the discussion? I can't remember hearing about a Tau execution, nor forcing their complete culture upon someone. If they didn't put some of their goods/services, and didn't take some goods/services, what was the point of taking that planet/system?

On topic though, I have thought of the Tau being the equivalent of Orson Well's 1984, or a pro-Manifest Destiny US(Teddy Roosevelt era, or Jefferson's. Either or.). A Nazi comparison, IMO does not fit except for the "right to expasion" mentality. A core piece of Nazisim is that one race(the Aryian in Hitler's case...white people) were better and deserving to rule the world and its inabitants. The Tau might believe they're a bit better than anyone else, but I don't think it goes that far. They have "aliens" on-planet and in the armed forces. They may very well keep the people in a hype/fanaticism with propaganda, which wouldn't be out of the question.

Sorry about rambling on about my views. Nazi...no. Fascist...likely in a way. Commies...Likely financially. Socialism...see Fascism.
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Old 11 Jun 2007, 22:03   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Not just slightly communist, but slightly fascist too?

When I say fascism, I dont mean Nazi Fascism. I mean just normal fascism. The kind where the governent believes in that the importance of the individual are less important than the need of the country as a whole. Here, this is a good quote, from a site called

publiceye.org ( i just put that there so as to have no copy write problems)



"Fascism is a form of extreme right-wing ideology that celebrates the nation or the race as an organic community transcending all other loyalties. It emphasizes a myth of national or racial rebirth after a period of decline or destruction. To this end, fascism calls for a "spiritual revolution" against signs of moral decay such as individualism and materialism, and seeks to purge "alien" forces and groups that threaten the organic community. Fascism tends to celebrate masculinity, youth, mystical unity, and the regenerative power of violence. Often, but not always, it promotes racial superiority doctrines, ethnic persecution, imperialist expansion, and genocide. At the same time, fascists may embrace a form of internationalism based on either racial or ideological solidarity across national boundaries. Usually fascism espouses open male supremacy, though sometimes it may also promote female solidarity and new opportunities for women of the privileged nation or race."

This sounds tauish in some aspects, especially the second sentance in. This is what I was talking about, the broad term fascism, not the " nazi fascism" everyone stereotypes with.
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Old 11 Jun 2007, 22:09   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Not just slightly communist, but slightly fascist too?

Tau do force themselves on other races. Look at the Vespid, they were subsumed into the Empire after the leaders were given "communication helms" (or was it communion, well never mind) and then they were added into the Empire. Tau feel that their way is the best and so all must join them or die. The only reason Kroot and Demiurg get away with being separate from the Empire, semi-autonomous in the Kroots part, is because they are too important to lose. Kroot provide about half of the fighting force in the Tau military as they are the most numerous of the Tau Auxiliaries. The Tau can't risk losing a large part of their military so they grant the kroot some autonomy within the Empire. Demiurg know a lot of information that the Tau could use, Ion technology for example, and attacking them would get no where. Most races met by the Tau are either subsumed into the Greater Good or destroyed for the Greater Good. Either way the Greater Good is served.

Most alien species within the Tau Empire are treated as second class citizens with some of the other races like Vespid for example are treated better as they have proven their loyalty to the Empire. *cough*mindcontrol*cough* Knight Actual's desciption of the Tau is quite acurate though, if crude.

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Old 11 Jun 2007, 22:16   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Not just slightly communist, but slightly fascist too?

I think you would have a hard case with this. The Imperium is pretty much an archetypal Fascist system as a whole, and most of the worlds that have been described follow either that general model or else more of a feudal aristocracy. The Imperium has much more of the single-race (species, in this case) nationalist policies driving expansion. They also have much more of a problem with treating portions of the population as "second-class citizens". The Tau have very little in common with Fascism by comparison. Only a few surficial elements, really.
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Old 11 Jun 2007, 23:08   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Not just slightly communist, but slightly fascist too?

I'd thought the Communion Helms were only "thought" to have given suggestions. I don't remember reading anything to the contrary(though I will admit I haven't read a lot of fluff; just what I've read on the boards and in the Codex.

As for second-class, that's all right with me, but by no means do I get the impression that they are treated as just a step above Gue'la and the other enemies of the empire. Speaking of which, thus far, they've met all of them(or almost all). Pray, let me list them in groups:
Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, Chaos, Dark Eldar, Higher Humans(SM, Inquisition, higher IG officers...), Eldar,

These are the races I do not think the Tau could and/or would assimilate for various reasons. A bit of a no-brainer IMO.

Which leaves...
Lower Humans(Other IG, civilians, etc...), Kroot Mercenaries
The Gue'Vesa are able to serve within the Tau Empire, as well as I'd imagine within the workplace as well. The Kroot are able to give a great deal of the armed forces, but why would the IG which have also been there for generations be very different? I'm going by logic here, and not any fluff in particular, so feel free to tear it apart, but it doesn't sound as much second-class as I would think.
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