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Rule-bending powers: Lacking attributes in the Tau
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Old 11 May 2007, 06:20   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Rule-bending powers: Lacking attributes in the Tau

I'm all for gaming to win. It's fun, sometimes, to get into the competetive spirit, screw being fluffy, and just hammer it out.

However, powergame and Mathhammer superiority seem to be the status quo with many of the opponents that I face. And, unfortunately, this results in some pretty nasty combos that neither a take-all-comers or a specialized list can handle.

Commanders that are immune to instant death (despite only being T4-5). Monstrous creatures, period (Tau lack cheap high-strength weaponry with any significant degree of survivability). Deep-strikers that simply relocate around enemy squads (or push them aside, then fire/assault). Anything that inflicts negatives to enemy leadership, or forces Ld tests en mass. All of these thing are EXTREMELY difficult to circumvent (that and the fact that leadership and morale in the 40K universe can be circumvented by every other army BUT Tau, and in a reasonably affordable manner).

What particular items have you noticed that "alter" rules situations abnormally (or just has rediculously nasty effects), that pose significant problems for the Tau? What are some Tau abilities/items that have any similar such effects?

[size=6pt]((Excluding special characters, because having 194,863 battles in a month, in all of which the same special character fought seems rediculous. I find special characters to be the most (pardon my saying) retarded part of the 40K system...more so that people will structure their army around playing a given character, rather than the Army itself, or that they HAVE to, just to make their army tactically workable.))[/size]
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Old 11 May 2007, 07:55   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rule-bending powers: Lacking attributes in the Tau

Autarchs and their fancy reserves rolls bonus can be annoying.
But they turn to squishy paste when introduced to our friend the Rail Rifle.

Veil of Darkness, Res Orb, Phylactery, Phase Shifter lord and maxed unit of Immortals.
These boys can deep strike pretty much every turn, and lay on the pain with shooting. Also very, very hard to kill all of them in one shooting phase.
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Old 11 May 2007, 08:54   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rule-bending powers: Lacking attributes in the Tau

a librarian with a jump pack and "fear of darkness"

this guy is fast enough to hide from your big guns and can make every enemy unit with a model within 12" take a panic check at -2 leadership (you might want to watch out for him if you have a battlesuit or firewarrior heavy list)

any inquisition army that includes a callidus or a vindicare assassin

there is only one thing more annoying than having the callidus pop in front of a crisis team and both lock them in combat and gradually cut them down to nothing. the more annoying thing is if she assaults a large squad of fire warriors - you need 5's then 5's to hurt her and she will wipe out half the squad with her neural shredder before your even get to that point
The vindicare is often used to take out drone controllers and ethereals.


now for the rulebook loopholes (if powergaming and RAW are your thing you might like these )

i) if you place a hammerhead behind a building witht he railgun inside it (the building) you can fire the railgun (as you draw LOS from the gun) but you cant be shot at in return (as the enemy draws LOS to your hull)

ii) watch out for fleeting eldar jetbikes (there's nothing saying they cant)

iii) watch out for dark angels players who use devastators. technically because they carry pistols they can fire twice up to 12" (the rulebook does not speify that it has to be the pistol firing). thats 6 shots per heavy bolter (or 2 shots per plasma cannon).

ive got more but i think i'll start a rant debate with these alone



PS - i have only ever used one loophole (the devastator one above). some kid thought it would be funny to deepstrike his entire dark angel army in front of my Daemonhunters (including ravenwing and normal marines) in the first turn. i swiftly taught him the meaning of mystics and fired 8 plasma cannon shots from 4 men at each squad (granted i lost the squad due to overheats but they earned me a victorious slaughter in return ;D)
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Old 11 May 2007, 10:56   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rule-bending powers: Lacking attributes in the Tau

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Magnifico
i) if you place a hammerhead behind a building witht he railgun inside it (the building) you can fire the railgun (as you draw LOS from the gun) but you cant be shot at in return (as the enemy draws LOS to your hull)
[size=48pt]WRONG![/size]

Range is drawn from the HULL of the tank. NEVER the gun. This rule exists specifically to stop this sort of thing happening.


Quote:
ii) watch out for fleeting eldar jetbikes (there's nothing saying they cant)
Yes there is. It's this thing called "The Rulebook". "Nothing Says they Can't" is NEVER applicable. Marines don't have an entry saying "cannot fleet". Nor does my Baneblade. Can those Fleet? No.


Quote:
iii) watch out for dark angels players who use devastators. technically because they carry pistols they can fire twice up to 12" (the rulebook does not speify that it has to be the pistol firing). thats 6 shots per heavy bolter (or 2 shots per plasma cannon).
What are you babbling about?

Yes, ALL Dark Angels carry Bolt Pistols. This means those Devastators can legally fire bolt Pistols instead of their Heavy Weapon. NOWHERE does it say they can fire both.

And incidentally, it DOES state it has to be the Pistol firing in order to use the Pistol rules.
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Old 11 May 2007, 12:05   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rule-bending powers: Lacking attributes in the Tau

1. the lack of power weapons (except for farsight)
2. The lack of a good weapon skill
3. The lack of a good strong leadership
4. The lack of a high toughness
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Old 11 May 2007, 12:15   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rule-bending powers: Lacking attributes in the Tau

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian_Alpha
Anything that inflicts negatives to enemy leadership, or forces Ld tests en mass. All of these thing are EXTREMELY difficult to circumvent (that and the fact that leadership and morale in the 40K universe can be circumvented by every other army BUT Tau, and in a reasonably affordable manner).
Now I know it's hard to remember us Dark Eldar but we have pretty much no way to circumvent ld, we have 1 piece of wargear (I think) that gives us +1 ld but only under some pretty crappy circumstances. And our base ld is only one higher than a firewarrior shas'la. So I agree fully with the intent of this statement...everyone else seems to have some kind of way to completely ignore the penalties of ld, but you're not the only one with this problem .
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Old 11 May 2007, 12:33   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rule-bending powers: Lacking attributes in the Tau

I'm actually pretty incredulous after reading your post. All I hear about is how lame the Tau are on account of how many rules they can break.

- Most armies can't move in the assault phase unless they're assaulting

- Most armies don't have infantry models that can fire 2 weapons

- Most armies can't split fire from a single unit

- Most armies can't assault after firing rapid-fire weapons

- Most other Plasma Guns kill their operator if they roll a 1 to hit

- Most armies don't have 15pt ablative wounds with a 4+ inv save

- Most armies don't have AV13 fast moving skimmers that re-roll results of Immobilized

- Most armies don't have ready access to S10 AP1 guns... with 72" range... that can move 12" and fire



All of these are departures from "the norm".





Quote:
WRONG!

Range is drawn from the HULL of the tank. NEVER the gun. This rule exists specifically to stop this sort of thing happening.
Wargamer, have a look at the most recent rulebook FAQ on GW's site dated 8.29.06. In particular, it states:

Quote:
Q. Where are the LOS and range of a vehicle's guns
measured from?

A. The LOS of the guns is worked out from the gun
themselves (rule book, page 64, Vehicle line of sight).
Distances should be measured from the hull, but this
generates some very odd and impractical situations. So,
for the sake of playability, we have to state that the range
of a gun fired from a vehicle (except Walkers) is
measured from the muzzle of the gun itself, for all other
models (including Walkers) it is measured from the
model’s base.



Quote:
i) if you place a hammerhead behind a building witht he railgun inside it (the building) you can fire the railgun (as you draw LOS from the gun) but you cant be shot at in return (as the enemy draws LOS to your hull)
El Magnifico, if the enemy can see your model, they can shoot at it. Nowhere does it exempt the guns on vehicles from being part of the model. There is a paragraph in the rulebook that states that if all that can be seen is a "toe" or an "antenna" or "some other minor part" this is not sufficient to claim line of sight. Frankly though, the 25 foot barrel of a linear accellerator does not strike me as a "minor part" of the vehicle.
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Old 11 May 2007, 12:55   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rule-bending powers: Lacking attributes in the Tau

But if its area terrain, when the barrel has the 6" LOS, but the enemy does not to the hull, then does this not work?

Not that this should ever be used, any one doing so should have their models stamped on.
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Old 11 May 2007, 13:06   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rule-bending powers: Lacking attributes in the Tau

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafe (Autarch Kiardras)
But if its area terrain, when the barrel has the 6" LOS, but the enemy does not to the hull, then does this not work?

Not that this should ever be used, any one doing so should have their models stamped on.
Put simply; if you can shoot them, they can shoot you.

This is how the rule works, and indeed the view of "From the Hull" stems entirely from this principle. Anyone who'se ever faced a "Flanked Vanquisher" can testify how sick that is. Trust me, your Hammerheads are nothing compared to what Guard players can pull.
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Old 11 May 2007, 13:07   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rule-bending powers: Lacking attributes in the Tau

I play if you shoot me i shoot you. If you can fire at my models then i can fire at yours.

How about this for rules.

1. line of sight is not check from your gun. it is checked from the hull. the shots from the gun come from the gun. so GUESS WHAT! you can fire though the terrain but you cannot see anyone. therefore not allowing you to shoot through the terrain at your targets. Nice try though.
2.i have had people try and say oh my gun can shoot over this but you cant shoot at me. i just symply say no. you shoot me i can shoot you
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