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Overloading STR 7 shots.
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Old 27 Apr 2007, 05:59   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Overloading STR 7 shots.

Ok the kroot hounds thread got me thinking about kroot and particularly oxen.

Real fast since I gotto go to bed, the idea is this.

3 units of 2 deathrains.

3 Ionheads.

3 units of Kroot with 3 Oxen each.

Use the rest of your points to get your commander, 1+ FW's with some EMPs, and some Piranha for tank hunting.

This is a total of 30! STR7 shots every turn.

Think about it.
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Old 27 Apr 2007, 06:08   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Overloading STR 7 shots.

Ok but only one of those options has a nice AP value, while the strength is nice against most infantry the str 7 is really no better than str 6 and its not even that great at killing tanks. For all the points spent on getting a lot of str 7 shots in the Kroot squads you could get some broadsides, or more Firewarriors. Its an option, I just don't see it as being an entirely practical one.
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Old 27 Apr 2007, 06:32   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Overloading STR 7 shots.

I see what your saying about the Ionheads having to pick up MEQ slack.

But I still think with the Piranhas and a Centurion commander('El, CIB, Plasma, TA, HWMT) adding their share of low AP, combined with all those extra STR4 bolter shots, will make up for it. Besides there are gonna be 18 Burst Cannon shots from the Ionheads to boot.

I don't know, I'm just envisioning the damage this army would do to Orks, Eldar, Gaurd, Nids, DE, and other Tau.

There are a lot of MEQ out there, but I this will likely smoke assault cannon speeder lists, rhino rush, and whirlwinds for days.

Fast assaulters will of course be focused on and blocked by Ionheads/Piranhas, but bikes turbo boosting for invulnerable saves aren't gonna make it through such a hailstorm of STR7 shots all wounding on 2's.

I think this actually has more advantages against MEQ shooty armies since low AP doesn't get around the cover save they will use. So in this instance, the recently updated Dark Angels might find some trouble.

Additionally, the Eldar and Tau deserve special mention since they were re-realeased recenly. Skimmers get smoked by this and both armies usually rely rather heavily on them.

Ack..I have to go to bed, talk more on this later Vash.
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Old 27 Apr 2007, 07:15   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Overloading STR 7 shots.

israfel420..... I had never thought of what you just described as a Centurian Commander. I MUST integrate that config into my army. Thank you. That is all.

Oh, but about the St. vs AP. Well, I'd always thought the Ap far more important to weaponry than their strength. I could see the benifits of your 30 shots of St7. Especially since the kroot would add a lot of bodies to the army as a whole. Potentially making it a very threatening force psychologically. (Kroot rock at that if nothing else sometimes)

Just my two cents.
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Old 27 Apr 2007, 12:08   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Overloading STR 7 shots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevFox2169
israfel420..... I had never thought of what you just described as a Centurian Commander. I MUST integrate that config into my army. Thank you. That is all.

Oh, but about the St. vs AP. Well, I'd always thought the Ap far more important to weaponry than their strength. I could see the benifits of your 30 shots of St7. Especially since the kroot would add a lot of bodies to the army as a whole. Potentially making it a very threatening force psychologically. (Kroot rock at that if nothing else sometimes)

Just my two cents.
I agree that AP is better if you want to fight tons of heavy armoured enemies SM come to mind. Strength if you are fighting a lot of tanks or light viechles.
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Old 27 Apr 2007, 12:44   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Overloading STR 7 shots.

I've recently toyed with the idea of finally using my Krootox to help defend my broadsides from scarabs. I only have one, and can't see buying eight more for your strategy. My main opponent is a Necron player, and I find my Deathrain suits are basically useless against any unit besides scarabs. That 3+ save is killer, and then they get WBB. Now the str 7 works great against Eldar and others with bad armor, I just wouldn't load up that many high AP weapons against 3+ save armies. I do love the Ionhead though.

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Old 27 Apr 2007, 13:41   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Overloading STR 7 shots.

i see Str in two ways. instant death, and tanks. most things with a T3 dont have two wounds or more. so that doesnt matter that much and its not that great for tanks only being able to kill 13armor max
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Old 27 Apr 2007, 20:25   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Overloading STR 7 shots.

israfel, its good to see you around the forums again. Your Piranha tactics were brilliant.


This? Not so brilliant. Sure, it can be done, but why? And you know who will Smoke you?

All-Infantry Guard, and gaunt-of-doom 'Nid lists.
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Old 27 Apr 2007, 20:37   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Overloading STR 7 shots.

Heya,

Massed Str7 is lovely. But only against specific targets, like Skimmers. Otherwise, you're just throwing expensive shots at infantry that would have been better off as merely Str5. The good thing about Str7 is that it's not the big expensive Str8+ stuff, generally has multiple shots, and is useful against armor, as well as infantry. It's a very flexible value for Tau (and other armies, like Imperial forces, with Autocannons).

30 shots of Str7, even if all of it was at effective BS4, would average 5~6 MEQs.
50 shots of Str5, just assuming effective BS4, averages 7~8 MEQs (5~6 MEQs at BS3). Note this is NOT rapid-fire range.
In terms of GEQ, the Str7 is extremely overkill and not nearly as powerful as the Str5.

Think about that. And tally the cost to achieve those numbers of shots.

Str7 only starts to open up against really high Toughness (where Railguns, Seekers, Fusion, etc, is more applicable, as high saves generally follow), or low end armor values (A10~12 in general).

DeathRains, upwards of 300 points for 12 Str7 shots (BS4, or twinlinked BS3).
FireWarriors, upwards of 300 points for 30 Str5 shots (BS3).

-- I'm all about the Missile Pods & Ion Cannons, but unfortunately for Tau, maximizing the availability of Str7 is not something that will suddenly turn your game around. You're losing out on the better firepower (massed Str5) and taking out the available places of your higher strength shots (Str8+, via your Elite & Heavies) while you're at it. It's just not worth it.

You're far better off having a good amount of Str7, lots of Str5, and a few 8+ values in there for a good spread. 30 Str7 shots will not be enough for some armies, will be useless against some, and will be overkill against others. That's not effective or efficient.

Cheers,
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Old 29 Apr 2007, 03:00   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Overloading STR 7 shots.

You know what army this would be good against? Cheeseball chaos lists with two FW greater daemons. Really, that's it. Your list excels at killing very high toughness critters with bad armor saves. Unfortunately, those are reasonably rare.

By all means, keep some of that...just balance it out some too, yknow?
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