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Tau vs. Necrons: How do you kill those metallic beasties!
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Old 22 Apr 2007, 19:08   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Tau vs. Necrons: How do you kill those metallic beasties!

I've recently been battle the necrons with my tau force and have to admit i'm really struggling to win battles against them. my usual FoF tactic with 2 devilfish and 24 rapid fire fire warriors used to take out about 7-8 space marines, but i'm lucky to take out 4 necron warriors (if you include we'll be back). add to this the units are usually 15 plus models then you have no chance of taking them out quickly. additionally, my railguns are tied up shooting lords, monoliths or c'tan, then that only leaves fusion guns with instant kill strength. i've realised that the (arguably) best shooting force in the game can't use its awesome fire power to take out necrons so what do you do to kill them. i have approximately 4000 points of tau with every unit type going so can you tell me the best way forward?
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Old 22 Apr 2007, 19:38   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Tau v necrons. How do you kill those metallic beasties!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diavolos1981
I've recently been battle the necrons with my tau force and have to admit I'm really struggling to win battles against them. my usual FoF tactic with 2 devilfish and 24 rapid fire fire warriors used to take out about 7-8 space marines, but I'm lucky to take out 4 necron warriors (if you include we'll be back). add to this the units are usually 15 plus models then you have no chance of taking them out quickly. additionally, my railguns are tied up shooting lords, monoliths or c'tan, then that only leaves fusion guns with instant kill strength. I've realised that the (arguably) best shooting force in the game can't use its awesome fire power to take out necrons so what do you do to kill them. I have approximately 4000 points of tau with every unit type going so can you tell me the best way forward?
I don't play as tau so I can only give you some genreal tips about the 'crons. As far as I've heard they have absolutely brutal short ranged fire power but very little that can do things at long range. Your pulse rifle has a longer range than the gauss flayer and judging by your use of the FoF I'd say you play either mech or hybrid tau. This means that you can force him to advance and not shoot for an extra turn (more if he wants to rapid fire. Remember to destroy any mobile elements (mostly destroyers, heavy destroyers, scarabs, wraiths, destroyer lords and VoDing lords) quickly so you can exploit the advantage of your speed, this may seem like a lot of targets to worry about but really, most good necron armies are mostly troops. Also, railguns shouldn't just be used on lords monoliths and c'tan. The C'tan and monoliths can usually be safely ignored because of their slow speed and the lords are tough...but the warriors are the real workhorses of the necron army.

FoF probably won't be the best tactic against the necrons...unless of course you're doing it to those poor flayed ones who can't do anything back. You'll want to soften them up first because rapid firing gauss flayers are downright mean. So shoot to kill with the FoF, use it's mobility to hit weakened parts of his army. Deepstriking or infiltrating flayed ones can be tough, so look out for them, but a turn's worth of the famous tau rapid fire should take care of them. I can't really say much else except to only advance to short range when you can do some really serous damage...preferrably killing the chosen unit entirely, because the return fire will wreak havoc on anything there. I really can't stress how much of an advantage your mobility will be, especially if you cripple his mobility before starting in on the warriors.

This is just a short synopsis of what I've seen of the necrons. And remember that I don't play tau so take it with a grain of salt.
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Old 22 Apr 2007, 20:03   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Tau v necrons. How do you kill those metallic beasties!

I have the same problem. My skimmers get owned every game, but I have found one thing that works very well: Kroot. I use them to tie up destroyers, lords, or even basic guys. Infiltrate really makes them big targets, but if thier in cover they can be very hard to destroy. Also, if you know your going to be facing Necrons, I would go light on skimmers, as they have the guass rule. Vespids also work well, especaily with the benifit of markerlights. Alot of the time, I'll even charge the unit after I shoot them with vespid.
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Old 22 Apr 2007, 20:03   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tau v necrons. How do you kill those metallic beasties!

Well, I've got a few "key words" for taking out Necrons.

*Railguns. Broadsides can be downright mean against monoliths (oh come on! What AREN't broadsides mean against?), give them TL plasma and a multi tracker and they will also eat anything that gets within 24 inches.

*Plasma rifles. A team of Crisis suits with plasma rifles and fusion blasters will make short work of any necron unit when given a bit of supporting fire.

*Fusion Blasters. See Plasma rifles. Instakill, too.

*Ion cannons. If you can keep those pesky Gauss weapons from shooting at you, a hammerhead with an Ion cannon is great for finishing off low-strength squads, or for putting a wound or 2 on a lord.

*Sniper Drones. It's hard to argue with these guys. They can pump out enough AP3 to take out most of a necron squad, which you can then finish off with something else. Don't forget about the markerlights.

*Seeker Missiles. I would take around 2, just for finishing off any one-man squads that nothing else can shoot at, so they don't get their WBB.

*Ninja'O. A Shas'O with a Plasma Rifle, Fusion Blaster, Vectored Retro Thrusters, stimm injectors and a multi tracker (sometimes iridium armor as well, and maybe even a shield drone or two if you feel you need them.) can really put the hurt on warrior squads. Shoot, charge him in, fight a round of combat, and when it's his assault phase, simply leave the combat, rinse, and repeat. The stimms and sheer amount of wounds a Shas'O will keep him alive, along with IA if you give it to him. He gets a decent amount of attacks, so he may take down a warrior or two in CQC, but his main purpose is to tie them up in combat. Watch out for lords, though.


Just an addendum:

Stealth suits with targetting arrays aren't 1/2 bad, either. I've taken out a full strength squad of destroyers 1st turn with the help of Targetting arrays and a helpful firewarrior Shas'ui's markerlight. 18 BS5 pulse rounds isn't something to take lightly They also somehow went on to kill the lord that charged them in CQC. I honestly don't know how that happened, but it was nice...
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Old 22 Apr 2007, 21:08   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Tau vs. Necrons: How do you kill those metallic beasties!

Fundamentally, this is a bad matchup. I'll repost some advice I gave a Tau player in the list section. In general though, you mostly have to hope he is playing a weak list or playing poorly.

start quote

A battle against Necrons is always very difficult for Tau Empire armies, but it isn't impossible. I'm a Necron player who has played a bunch of games against Tau Empire lists, but I don't own the codex myself, so take my criticism with a grain of salt.

Shas'el, good stuff.

3 FW units...not going to be very useful. The grenades and bondknife are especially questionable. Necron close combat is not their strong suit, but it is even less the Tau Empire's strong suit, and having non-scoring units rallying is only worthwhile if they are able to affect their opponents. A FW unit under half power can't really threaten almost any necron units.

Crisis Suits: Solid, these are an effective unit against Necrons. They will do fine, but I think you have them a little too gussied up. Maybe drop the drones and get more crisis suits?

Stealth Suits: Not a very good unit against Necrons, who are short range shooters to begin with. The stealth fields and mass dakka are not good against a short range list with WBB to protect against mass low s fire.

Gun Drone squadron: Not a hot unit vs. Crons. They have short range dakka guns and wimpy leadership, also pinning is rare with a ld 10 enemy.

Heavy Support: Both the broadsides and the sniper drones do well against Necrons. Why bond the broadsides though? Can a pair of guys even drop below half?



General: Great start by not having any vehicles! Necrons eat vehicles for free points, so at the very least you aren't saddling yourself with any problems right off the bat. The general problem is that your FW's, drone squad and stealth drones can't really affect his infantry blocks, and his skimmers won't get in range of them. Thus, it is a battle of your heavy support vs. his army.

In terms of crons:

Warriors: These are a long term threat unless he is teleporting them by either having his Lord near them or a monolith dropping among your armies. Fire on them if there are no assaulters approaching your heavy supports, or destroyers or immortals in range. If the Lord is with them to teleport them put them slightly over immortals.

Immortals: These are a fundamental problem for you. They will evaporate your FW, and kill your crisis suits only slightly less quickly if they can. Unlike the Warriors your units can't for the most part run away from these guys. Target them unless there are Destroyers or assaulters heading for your heavy supports.

Destroyers: Like immortals, but less numerous, faster and with a longer range and more firepower. These are a priority target, destroying them falls only behind Assaulters about to hit your heavy supports.

Assaulters: Too flavors, scarabs and wraiths. If they are going after stealth suits, FW, whatever, ignore them. If they are going after sniper teams or broadsides you have to take them out, first priority.

Monolith: If it is far away, ignore it. If it is close up, destroy it with your broadsides.

Other: Pariahs, Tomb Spyders, Flayed Ones, C'tan, etc. rank right after Warriors in your kill order, that is to say, they are last. (Presuming the Pariahs are hiding and trying to be aura-y/warscythe-y. If they act like immortals treat them as such)

Monolith: Shoot it with your broadsides for free points.

The Problem: Static Tau vs. Balanced Necrons usually goes like this: Assaulters race towards heavy support, Necrons plod forward. Tau shoot up assaulters, can't get them all. Assaulters attack Heavy Support while long range Necrons begin firing, short range necrons plod forward. Tau get rid of assaulters somehow, deal minor damage to long range necrons. Short range Necrons in range, remainder of the battle is a short range firefight that necrons win.

Look over his list before battle, if the numbers of assaulters (scarabs, wraiths) and long range (immortals, destroyers) are low you have a good shot. If they are high it will be a hard game for you.

For quick reference, your kill order should be:

1. Scarabs or Wraiths headed towards Heavy Support units or crisis suits.
2. Teleporting Warriors+ lord
3. Immortals (teleport makes no dif to Immortal kill order) + Destroyers
4. Footslogging warriors
5. slow assaulters or fast assaulters going after non Heavy Support units

Good luck!

end quote

To generalize slightly.

If the battle is take and hold, secure and control, or recon, it is time to rely on faith in the Tau'va. In a seek and destroy or cleanse game you have a decent shot. Your effective units against him will be heavy support, and crisis suits. Broadsides and sniper drones are better than hammerheads. Your goal is to deny him the ability to damage most of your list, and pound him from a distance, ending the game before most of his guys can hurt you. If he is playing balanced Necrons you can occasionally do this. If he is playing schticky Necrons that aren't fast attack your odds are even better. If he is playing optimal Necrons you are back to faith in the Tau'va.
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Old 14 May 2007, 16:21   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau vs. Necrons: How do you kill those metallic beasties!

Um ... I got a question, well it stems from a debate.

A 1000pts of Necrons with 2 x Necron Lords each witha squad of warriors and each kitted up with Reserrection Orb & Vaile of Darkness. I can see issues here like the WBB rule and the teleporting Vaile ... any ideas of what will take em down?

I was thinking a Hammerhead with Rail Gun and Disruption Pods? or maybe sheere volume of troops, slam a squad with all I got and hope they fail to roll to get up?

Any ideas? ???
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Old 14 May 2007, 16:35   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Tau vs. Necrons: How do you kill those metallic beasties!

Everytime this come up an the topic of problems with necrons with tau comes up allot i always advise on 2 hammer heads 1 ion cannon for destroyers its great at hunting these, and one with railgun which i use for his warriors. At this point lots of people usually say something about the AP of a sub shot makes it a bad choice, however nearly every necron player i know hordes his warriors tightly round his lord to make use of the orb so you can cover loads i have often covered 15+ an 15 rolled to wound on a 2+ makes him take allot of armour saves and odds are it will put down allot more than an ion cannon could. The last heavy i take are broadsides usualy 2 sitting at the back they are used for monoliths and after that destroyers.

Even with these 3 Heavy you still have plently of points left in a 1500 pts army i load up on suits usualy fireknifes and the odd helios then. use your firewarriors a lure in the center 2 squads of 12 for me usualy. add in a few plasma hq suits an a large squad of kroot in some cover. Kroot are great against necron warriors since they have they dont have MEQ In, in combat ok you will lose the squad but on the charge 40 odd atks can be nice an you only have to kill 2 necron warriors to every 5 kroot you lose to make there points up. Just lure the bulk of his infantry towards your firewarriors and circle round with your suits an tanks.
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Old 14 May 2007, 19:34   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Tau vs. Necrons: How do you kill those metallic beasties!

Hmmm ... rumour has it Necrons are tank killers so whenever a warrior rolls a six they always get on the glancing hit table. With the ability to teleport in right next to a tank, packing say 15 warriors surely they will blitz the hammerhead and then teleport to the next?

Is there any advice on keeping the hammerheads alive with their teleport ability? Also aparenty their Lord dishes 1 x strength 3 attack for every attack on them with some gizmo upgrade, and then they gat their atacks back, this would wipe out Kroot or any close combat attempt in no time. Any advice on this or is it just the Necron challengers hot air? :
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Old 14 May 2007, 22:17   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tau vs. Necrons: How do you kill those metallic beasties!

I faced a necron player a little while ago, one of the key things is take them out at range. if you get close you get owned. I was playing a 1000 pt. game and he had 14 shots against my D.F. and it got crew stunned. just stay away and don't fall for the fall back trick.
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Old 15 May 2007, 00:36   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Tau vs. Necrons: How do you kill those metallic beasties!

for killing Necrons, your most powerful unit is the crisis suit. However, I strongly advise against massed amounts of plasma and fusion. GO massed deathrain config, and here me out. I've played against an enourmous amount of Necron armies, and have almost always come out on top. The main problem we have is that they have weapons good against us. Well the thing is, we can negate WBB on the things that matter. First objective should be to kill destroyers and anythign moving fast towards us. Scarabs can be a pain in the ass, but can be instakilled. Wraiths die to pulse rifles, destroyers die to deathrains.

Next should be killing any teleporting stuff. On thing to note, two Veils is illegal (they can only get one). Anything that is stupid enough to teleport next to your lines to fry a single unit deserves the attentions of every unit in your army, so it can die a nice, slow, not so peaceful metallic death. Killing the Lord would also be nice. here, a unit of kroot would come in handy, as Necrons warriors in low quantities generally die to even ten or so kroot

I could go into greater detail, but that would be very extensive. However, the main trick is target priority. Nothing else against necrons matters. Just remember to negate WBB by killing the small expensive untis first, and then use the mobility and range to finish the army off.

Cheers!


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