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Tau-sympathizers fall to chaos?
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Old 03 Apr 2007, 08:04   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Tau-sympathizers fall to chaos?

In the grim future of 40k's continuity the Imperium's harsh rule has evolved as a means to prevent chaos contamination.

By contrast the Tau as a race are not nearly so vulnerable to chaos influence.

Consequently, it seems to me that now that the Tau are taking Imperial worlds away and putting into place the looser Tau governments, they may soon have a bit of a chaos problem on their hands. Not being so vulnerable to corruption themselves I imagine they don't know that letting humans have orgies brings Daemonettes, or gladiator spectacles bringing Khornate corruption. Heck the humans could probably actually study warpcraft with impunity, as the Tau philosophy seems to be, generally, whatever floats your boat. I imagine that they'd spot the trend quick enough, but does it seem to anyone else that the Tau's first successful large scale integration of human colonies will quickly be followed with the Tau battling a bunch of chaos rebellions?
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Old 03 Apr 2007, 10:01   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tau-sympathizers fall to chaos?

Man, you have a good point! In the interregnum between strong Imperial rule and a fully functioning Tau-aligned government, there will almost certainly be an increase in Chaos outbreaks. I guess this is another area where Tau naivety might nip them in the bud.

Fluff could be written on this...
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I picture the Ethereal looking out the window of the Devilfish from his seat: "Hey this isn't the way to Applebee's?! Where are you guys taking...Aw man, a battle?! Aw, you guys are total dicks, I swear! I'm still wearing my bathrobe! Can I at least have a gun? What do you mean you don't have any extra? What should I do, hit Khorne Berzerkers with my symbol of office? Man, you're gonna be sorry if I die... dicks."
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Old 03 Apr 2007, 11:01   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tau-sympathizers fall to chaos?

Except it's likely that the Tau would disprove of many of the ideals that eventually make Chaos cults. Most of the more obvious behaviours are fairly self - centered. For example, not contributing to the Tau'va by seeking pleasure for yourself would likely be stomped on hard. It's the same deal for bloodsports.

Whilst the Tau probably don't know exactly how Chaos works, it's likely that they would crack down on the attitudes that accompany it anyway (simply because they are so alien to the concept of the Greater Good).
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Old 03 Apr 2007, 11:37   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau-sympathizers fall to chaos?

Do you think the notions of greater good, which are only rooted strongly in Tau psychology, will have similar restraints on humans, to whom greater good is a foreign philosophy, but the survivalist instincts of honour (Khorne), hope (Tzeentch), defiance (Nurgle) and love (Slannesh) are embedded in us?

The greater good amongst humans will break down in the same way communism did. Sooner or later, individuality and the excitements of honour and defiance, as well as the warmth of love and hope, will take precedence over the greater good.


So yes, that's a good point, the Tau might just have an intractable rebellion on their hands in a few years time. If life gets too easy, Slannesh might take root, if life gets too hard, Khorne will have a hand, if life is too miserable then both Nurgle and Tzeentch will jump in.
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Old 03 Apr 2007, 12:13   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tau-sympathizers fall to chaos?

The greater good amongst humans will break down in the same way communism did.

Agreed. But humans under the Tau Empire are subject to the Tau Empire. So thus Tau philosophy WILL affect them.

Tau aren't dictators, true. Tau allow some behaviours that are a little untasteful to go under the radar when it comes to dealing with other races (ie, Kroot eating dead). But I can't imagine them allowing an attitude that is directly in opposition to the idea of the Greater Good (pleasure to yourself at any cost, mindless slaughter for no reason) to prosper.

With humans, the Tau will probably work hard to indoctrinate them with Tau beliefs (they DID grow up in a xenophobic dictatorship, and that won't just go away). Naturally, human instincts would win out in the majority of the population. But the Tau are there to ensure that such beliefs won't go to the extent required to fall to Chaos.
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Old 03 Apr 2007, 12:22   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tau-sympathizers fall to chaos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faolin
Except it's likely that the Tau would disprove of many of the ideals that eventually make Chaos cults.
You've got a point. At first, I was going to respond in a similar way, but 40kenthusiast was talking about the Tau's first successful integration attempts. Of course the Tau disapprove of the self-centered action that leads to most Chaos cults. But initially, they may not be aware of the strong tendency humans have for corruption, and not act accordingly.
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I picture the Ethereal looking out the window of the Devilfish from his seat: "Hey this isn't the way to Applebee's?! Where are you guys taking...Aw man, a battle?! Aw, you guys are total dicks, I swear! I'm still wearing my bathrobe! Can I at least have a gun? What do you mean you don't have any extra? What should I do, hit Khorne Berzerkers with my symbol of office? Man, you're gonna be sorry if I die... dicks."
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Old 03 Apr 2007, 14:50   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tau-sympathizers fall to chaos?

i have always wondered what the tau plan to do with humanity. the tau usualy accept help from races that resemble their own. the kroot are stealthy and the vespid are fast flyers but humans are not that usful. the humans might be a little better at melee combat but not by much. the tau seem to be better in every way except for numbers in comparison to the humans. what use do the tau have for their humans when the tau dont believe in the use of cannon fodder.

i think that either the tau will crack down on humanity and let it wither and die or let it run wild without a use for them.

one more thing. the tau accept aid from all sorts of alien races. chaos might not have much power over the tau but what about the kroot and vespid?

(is anyones spell check working? ??? )
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Old 03 Apr 2007, 16:03   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Tau-sympathizers fall to chaos?

The trouble is that you have to look at the human population in three ways when dealing with the Tau;

Gue'la
These are humans in the imperium and are treated as neutral-hostile by the empire. These humans are not under Tau rule and so can be treated as the normal imeprium population.

Assimalated Gue'la
These are humans who have willinly or unwilling become part of the emipre. These include traitors and those who through millitray or diplomatic action find themselves under Tau rule. Most humans in the Tau empire would fall under this bracket because their leaders have been converted and they just can't be bothered to go against the government.

Gue'vesa
These are traitors who have prove themselves to the Tau either by joining the ranks of Shas'la or being pro-Tau in otherways, such as being part of the Tau collition governments. This bracket also would include third generation humans would have grown up completely under Tau rule and thus have been indoctrinated in Tau'va philosophy from birth.

Ok to answer the question.
Something that bothers me a great deal is when people state facts like; 'but the survivalist instincts of honour (Khorne), hope (Tzeentch), defiance (Nurgle) and love (Slannesh) are embedded in us?'

Why? because this has nothing to do with belief and faith and if you have been brought up not knowing anything diffrent then your 'instints' are worth nothing, because they are now part of a diffrent philosophy.

It is human nature to 'want' to believe, so any hope is better than nothing. So in some ways the Tau'va would replace any faith the population had for the emperor. Saying this its not that the Tau are going to erase the emperor from the population. Doing so would automactically turn believes against them. Instead the Tau would have to gradually show that yes the emperor is good, but so is serving for the greater good of mankind. Serving the emperor is part of this.

Hence the Tau Por are playing a game with the minds of average humans to keep the same 'wants' and needs of human instint, but apply them to the Tau'va instead of whatever the humans had before.

A third generation Gue'vesa would have never known imperail rule and so would be completely pro-Tau (unless so other power had influence over him/her). Not knowing any better this Gue'vesa is not going to turn traitor on the Tau particularly as he/she will not have had the same style of childhood under Tau rule. With few family ties the subject will want to be part of the community group, which is under Tau control. Basically the will to be part of something will be stronger with a Gue'vesa compared to your average human. However it is that same faith in the 'greater good' which will be the Gue'vesas downside because it limits flexibility and the ability to think for yourself (outside of the box this is).

In many terms this makes it very difficult for a Gue'vesa to be converted unless somebody higher up in the rank tree is. This means that cults in/on a Tau world will work the opposite way to those on an imperil one, with those becoming converted from the top-down rather than bottom-up.

However the main problem is in those transitional generations before Tau rule has really been established properly. Here the old traditions and beliefs will still shine through and the lack of a 'crack down police force' will result in a much greater number of cults coming into being. Thus more problems for the Tau. Eventually they will realise this, however it is very difficult to do anything about it because of the fact that if they act too quickly on an imperial world they alienate the population, but if they act too slow then as sure as eggs is eggs they will have cults to have to put down.

In most cases the Tau play the beneficial oppressor, but this is very difficult if you are having active searches for cults and cultists.

This subject really needs input from the =][=...

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Old 03 Apr 2007, 16:42   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Tau-sympathizers fall to chaos?

"the kroot are stealthy and the vespid are fast flyers but humans are not that useful".

Psykers. The Tau may turn a blind eye to the speed and convenience of warp travel, but the first time one of their new subjects reveals himself as an alpha plus level psyker like the guy in the second Soul Drinkers book the Tau are going to understand that Psykers can't be so easily ignored. The humans contribution to the Greater Good could be their psykers. This is another idea that would go out with a few generation as the Tau came to understand the psykers->daemons->full chaos takeover chain, but it isn't logically obvious and the first few instances would probably be put down to chance and the Gue'la's apparent tendency to get attacked by daemons.
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Old 03 Apr 2007, 16:47   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau-sympathizers fall to chaos?

I think this is really a huge issue for the Tau. The relatively "good" perspective of the Tau is balanced in the fluff by the fact that their methods probably will not work in the context of the galaxy as a whole. The Imperium needs to be as cruel and oppressive as it is to survive. The Tau do not have to worry about the taint, nor do many of their allies from what we can tell. But when they have annexed many human worlds, they are going to have some very difficult choices to make.
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