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Distant Lure: Countering 2nd turn assault
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Old 27 Mar 2007, 23:31   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Distant Lure: Countering 2nd turn assault

An interesting loophole in the mission parameters surprised me one day.

In all of the standard missions, reserves is not listed as a special rule. Indeed, it is a constant. As it turns out, after deep disscussion with GW staff, so long as the mission-specific parameters do not deny the use of it, any squad may be placed in reserves. The most significant problem is that you have to roll for reserves.

I tested this out against necrons. I put half of my army on the board: snipers, broadside, and fire warriors. I infiltrated one squad of Stealth suits. Then put two more, my commander, and FOUR SQUADS of Kroot in reserve.

My opponent took second turn (so as to get more WBB rolls), I shot, he turbo'd his Scarabs, and then I rolled for reserves.

My FW's were on the back line. Just barely out of reach. I got three of my four Kroot teams, walked them up, and rapid-fired into each unit of scarabs. The swarms evaporated under the combined fire of FW and Kroot.

The rest of the game was a bit of a challenge, and I ended up losing, but it opened my eyes to this tactic. Anyone willing to give it a shot and tell me how it goes, or have already tried it?
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Old 28 Mar 2007, 01:10   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Distant Lure: Countering 2nd turn assault

I'm not sure about that one. I think there was an article a while back that seemed to hint at this being allowed, but there doesnt seem to be anythign that specifically says "you can place units in reserve even if they don't deep strike or are subject to escalation".

I'd like it to be possible, both from a tactical standpoint and one of realism though
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Old 28 Mar 2007, 01:14   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Distant Lure: Countering 2nd turn assault

It was my understanding that unless you had a specific rule that allowed you to place a unit in reserves(deep strike for example, or an escalation match) you couldn't. General rule of thumb in 40k is that you cant do something unless it states somewhere that you can.

It'd be fun if you could, though.
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Old 28 Mar 2007, 06:46   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Distant Lure: Countering 2nd turn assault

the problem I see is how would you balance skimmers? Now they don't even have 1 turn of staying still (if you lose 1st turn)
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Old 28 Mar 2007, 07:19   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Distant Lure: Countering 2nd turn assault

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaliel
the problem I see is how would you balance skimmers? Now they don't even have 1 turn of staying still (if you lose 1st turn)
Um...Reserves? You do have to roll for them, which means that they bring firepower to the board later. That's the sacrifice, in and of itself. Yes, the skimmer isn't getting shot at...but nor is it doing any shooting. They're not going to come in until the bottom of the second if you get your rolls like you say, and even then it's only a fifty-percent chance that they will actually come in: you might not get them until the third or fourth turn, and if the game ends before they come on the opponent automatically gets points for them. Considering the only thing one would really be worried about with this being cheap with is FOF, everything else you lose too much time...

That said, what about the necron lord upgrade that allows him to teleport an entire unit across the board from behind an obstruction and instantly rapid-fire you? Or drop-pods, which may be used REGARDLESS OF MISSION PARAMETERS to deep-strike units? Deploying units from reserves to support your flanks is no different than sending waves of combat troops at your enemy to draw them out and whittle them down, and is freely available to all armies. Imagine swinging fire dragons in from reserves to wipe out bikers or deep-stiking stealth suits... It works just the same.

That said, do keep in mind I'm not looking for limitations to throw onto an existing rule, modify the game, or argue over whether or not it can/should be allowed, but how this open rule might be tactically used.
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"I have exactly one-hundred men under my command counting on ME to lead that charge, you two-bit mechanic. I have five seige tanks, eight APC's, an artillery platform and a light mech that need resupply and repair by dusk. I need remote mines set, trenches dug, and my men fed and rested, or those Marines are going to be using us for toothpicks. Get it done, Fio'vre." Officer Sherwin Jackson, 13th Dal'yth Company, to Fio'vre D'nan

"Feed well, my Bretheren. You are what you eat, and we have devoured the mighty." Master Shaper Korl Muur
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Old 28 Mar 2007, 13:25   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Distant Lure: Countering 2nd turn assault

Sadly there is no such loophole. Units cannot volunteeringly be placed in reserves. I also had that idea, but after checking the rules firmly I found that this is prohibited. Only units with the special rules "reserves" or "deepstrike" may be kept in reserves. And of course some units like droppods that must be kept in reserves, or units which have to be held back because the mission requires it.

I am at the university (enjoying a break from laboratory-work) and have no rulebook to give the fitting lines to support my opinion, but I sure will look them up when I come home.

Oh, and just to mention it: GW-staff is not a reliable source for rule-questions. They do not know any more than any occasional gamer. Better ask in forums (foren? fora? ah, heck...) like this, the multitude of answers makes it more likely to find the right one.

Greetz, Trogdor
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Old 28 Mar 2007, 13:34   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Distant Lure: Countering 2nd turn assault

There are only four ways you can legally keep a unit in Reserve...

#1) The Scenario allows / forces the use of Reserves (ie: Bunker Assault).
#2) The unit in question is allowed to enter play via Deep Strike (ie: Terminators).
#3) The unit in question must begin the game in Reserves regardless of scenario (ie: Flyers).
#4) The unit in question cannot physically fit on the board.

Kroot, in your example, filled none of the Criteria. As such, it was illegal to keep them off board.

Note that #4 is something of a debatable point. However, it is generally accepted that "Horde" armies, particularly when having to deploy in cramped confines, are often entitled to keep units in Reserves until they have "made room" so to speak. By the sound of things, you had plenty of room to deploy your army (believe it or not, I have played armies that wouldn't fit on the board...).
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Old 28 Mar 2007, 13:51   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Distant Lure: Countering 2nd turn assault

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer

#4) The unit in question cannot physically fit on the board.

There's actually nothing in the rules to support #4. There's nothing that deals with what to do if you physically run out of room in your deployment zone.

Personally I've never seen it happen, but that sounds like the most reasonable, fair and sporting way to deal with it.

Edited so I didn't use the word actually 3 times in as many sentences.
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Old 28 Mar 2007, 14:01   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Distant Lure: Countering 2nd turn assault

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falstead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer

#4) The unit in question cannot physically fit on the board.

There's actually nothing in the rules to support #4. There's nothing that actually deals with what to do if you actually run out of room in your deployment zone.

Personally I've never seen it happen, but that sounds like the most reasonable, fair and sporting way to deal with it.
Almost had it happen once. Got stuck trying to play a 1750pt game with my ork army on a 4x4 table against a nid guy. He deployed his zonathropes first for maximum pushback. I end up having to deploy an entire ork army (with several oversized vehicles) in a 9x48" space.

Now back to your regularly scheduled on-topic posting
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Old 28 Mar 2007, 22:30   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Distant Lure: Countering 2nd turn assault

Can someone please tell me where in the rulebook or FAQs I can find the ruling that says I can't?
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"I have exactly one-hundred men under my command counting on ME to lead that charge, you two-bit mechanic. I have five seige tanks, eight APC's, an artillery platform and a light mech that need resupply and repair by dusk. I need remote mines set, trenches dug, and my men fed and rested, or those Marines are going to be using us for toothpicks. Get it done, Fio'vre." Officer Sherwin Jackson, 13th Dal'yth Company, to Fio'vre D'nan

"Feed well, my Bretheren. You are what you eat, and we have devoured the mighty." Master Shaper Korl Muur
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