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SkyRay with Missile launcher
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Old 20 Mar 2007, 17:29   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default SkyRay with Missile launcher

I realize this may seem stupid, but why didn't GW just give the SkyRay a missile launcher instead of six seeker missiles? I know that with seekers you get unlimited range and can fire more than one at a time, but chances are if you take a skyray you'll have a markerlight heavy army which could possibly use up all six missiles in one turn. Then you have a vehicle with 2 burst cannons, or SMS, and 2 markerlights. I really think they should've given it a missile launcher or two instead. Rant over, discuss freely ....... NOW!
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Old 20 Mar 2007, 17:42   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: SkyRay with Missile launcher

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Originally Posted by korik1
I realize this may seem stupid, but why didn't GW just give the SkyRay a missile launcher instead of six seeker missiles? I know that with seekers you get unlimited range and can fire more than one at a time, but chances are if you take a skyray you'll have a markerlight heavy army which could possibly use up all six missiles in one turn. Then you have a vehicle with 2 burst cannons, or SMS, and 2 markerlights. I really think they should've given it a missile launcher or two instead. Rant over, discuss freely ....... NOW!
Well what sort of missile launcher are you talking about? Whats its range, strength, ap? Just saying a missile launcher is very vague.

However it really doesn't matter as the skyray is a seeker missile carrier. 6 missiles unlimited range, carries its own 2 marker lights, str 8 ap3. It isn't meant for dealing with AV 14 tanks but AV 12 or less transports and light tanks. Railguns take care of the heavy armor. Plus its a scoring unit which can win you the game in the end
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Old 20 Mar 2007, 17:59   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: SkyRay with Missile launcher

I would liked to have seen the Skyray go from 6 missiles total to 6 (or 3) missiles per turn. In practice, this does nothing more than put 6 short-ranged Krak Missile Launchers in the hands of a few BS3 units (that can miss on the extra "to-hit" roll of a 1). It would make it a much more viable replacement for a Hammerhead. And all of the other limited ammunition units had their rules lifted (Typhoons, Whirlwinds).
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Old 20 Mar 2007, 18:02   #4 (permalink)
Xan
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Default Re: SkyRay with Missile launcher

Skyray is nice markerlight platform. Just look how fragile are pathfinders. Other sources of markerlights like marker drones + Stealth Suits are quite costy and still die easy.Not to mention mobility of skyray allowing you to have those ML`s where you need them. While Skyray can fire its ML`s after moving.
Yes it does take heavy slot , but taking into account seeker cost you get quite cheap SMS/M-Light platform. Think about it more like support vehicle than true tank.
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Old 20 Mar 2007, 19:14   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: SkyRay with Missile launcher

Well, If you think about it, each of those missiles is worth as much as a fire warrior. In that aspect, they take up a little less than half the value of teh Sky Ray!

Throw on burst cannons and a targeting array, you're getting, then a tank with more armor, higher balistic skill, markerlights, FREE target lock, and more firepower than a Devilfish---for less cost!!! The sky ray fulfills it's purpose in this respect: light anti-tank, with decent anti-infantry.
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Old 20 Mar 2007, 22:04   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: SkyRay with Missile launcher

For a skyray, a TA is pretty much mandatory. Failing to take one results in a significantly less effective unit, while saving pretty much crap in terms of points.

The skyray is then 25 points more expensive than an ionhead...20 if you give the ion a target lock to balance out the skyrays built in one. The burst/SMS is identical, so we wont bother comparing those. An ion cannon, if fired every turn(and it probably will be so long as the HH is ok), will score a grand total of 12 S7 AP2 hits.

The syray will score 8 ML hits, six of which are required to launch it's seekers. They dont have to be it's own ML hits, but it requires that many regardless of how you do it. On average, one of those seekers will miss, so in total, you gain 5 S8, AP 3 hits and two ML hits. Is that worth sacrificing the 12 ionhead hits and 20 points?

The ionhead does stupidly better vs terminators, roughly twice as good vs SM, and honestly, anything that has a T of 5 or lower, which is of course, almost every model in game. The two ML counters help make up some of the difference, but the clear winner for killing infantry is the ionhead.

Vs vehicles, ML counters have significantly less usage options. Mainly, to make big guns more reliable at hitting them. Lets look at how the hits perform against different armor values:

AV 10:
Ionhead: 2 glances, 6 pens.
Skyray: .83 glances, 3.33 pens.

AV 11:
Ionhead: 1 glances, 4 pens.
Skyray: .83 glances, 2.5 pens.

AV 12:
Ionhead: 2 glances, 2 pens.
Skyray: .83 glances, 1.66 pens.

AV 13:
Ionhead: 2 glances.
Skyray: .83 glances, .83 pens.

AV 14:
Ionhead: Nothing
Skyray: .83 glances.

Thus we see, they are roughly equal at killing AV 13, the skyray wins at AV14, and the ionhead is clearly superior in absolutely every other role, despite costing significantly less. And, if you want to bring something only for the purpose of killing AV13-14, either a railhead or broadsides are much superior, with both of those offering something else unique(submunitions, a large amount of railguns in one HS slot).

Damian, your arguement vs a df is less pertinent, because the two do not suffer the same disadvantage of taking a precious HS slot. Both the ionhead and the skyray do, and thus, make for a more accurate comparison.
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Old 20 Mar 2007, 23:20   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: SkyRay with Missile launcher

If it had just a missile launcher (or two) it would be compeating with the IonHead, which is cheap, has more shots, and is just a little bit weaker. What kind of tactical advantage does an stronger Ionhead give us? The Skyray is unique because of those abilities that you already listed, no LOS needed, unlimited range, plus the ability to shoot up to 6 in one turn. Otherwise we'd just have another tank variant that fulfills the same role as the other HH variants, one that isn't really needed by the Tau.
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Old 20 Mar 2007, 23:24   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: SkyRay with Missile launcher

Which is why I like the idea of giving it more missiles. That way, it becomes a true support vehicle. As long as it is alive, it strengthens every unit on the board with a Markerlight. It sort of does that now, but only for 6 shots, one of which should miss. The only reason I ever take one is for the Markerlight, and generally there are better uses for its own hits than firing Seekers. Unlike the Ionhead, you could shut it down by destroying the Pathfinders.
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Old 20 Mar 2007, 23:28   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: SkyRay with Missile launcher

The unlimited range really isnt an advantage over hammerheads...really, a railgun can reach anywhere, and an ion cannon very nearly so. 12" movement and 48" range results in range never really being a big deal. The no LOS is nice, and would be more so if it didn't require LOS from another ML unit to shoot. Also, if you have the skyray completely out of LOS of the enemy, the MLs are going to waste.

Keep in mind that as a skimmer, most terrain also doesn't block LOS, unless of course, you land, which has dangers of it's own. The only really nifty ability is the alpha strike. If it still required a single hit, it'd be very handy, but six seperate hits is expensive to acheive, especially if you wish to have those hits distributed among high value targets, like vehicles. If you simply want to dump all six missiles on say, a SM squad, there are far more point effective ways of causing equivelent damage.

Simply put, as it currently stands, the sky ray lacks a convincing reason to field it, which is a shame, because it's a wonderful looking model. It needs something unique to make it really desirable, because unfortunately, the seeker missiles are both available elsewhere, and have only a single point of strength to match against the superior rate of fire per point cost of an ion cannon.
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Old 20 Mar 2007, 23:41   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: SkyRay with Missile launcher

I found that Skyrays are best used, not as a vehicle hunter but rather a MEQ character hunter. Unlike a ionhead, the seekers are capable of insta-killing a Force commander, which in today's world of MEQ's is a rather valuable asset. However, most Force commanders are usually fieled in a command squad, usually limiting the effectiveness of the Skyray. But, in 1000 or less, the FC is usually deployed solo, giving it a good chance it would be markered and seekered.

Also, I found that the Seekers are also well used as an emergancy squad killer. If say a tooled up assault squad is within range of say several squads of FWs, then (if you're lucky), you can launch 6 seekers, effectively killing 4.1 (on average) MEQs. Most of the time, it would force the squad to fall back, thus saving your FWs.

But, after the 1000 pionts mark, the ionhead is much better overall.
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