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1000pts vs Space Marines - advice?
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Old 19 Mar 2007, 14:04   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default 1000pts vs Space Marines - advice?

Playing two of my mates later in the week, both have SM armies (one has Blood Angels)that I have struggled against in the past, have done some reading and with the models I possess I have put the following together:

Shas'el - 97pts
PR, MP, TA, HW MT

Shas'vre - 65
PR, CIB, MT
Shas'vre - 62
PR, MP, MT

3 x Stealth - 92
2x BC, 1x FB

6x FW - 85
Shas'ui with ML & HW TL

6x FW - 85
Shas'ui with ML & HW TL

6x FW - 85
Shas'ui with ML & HW TL

1x Piranha - 75
FB, SM

6x Vespids - 96

1x Broadside - 90
HW drone controller + shield drone

Ionhead - 150
SMS, DP, MT, SM

Total: 982 (leaves 18pts to play with)

Not used
Devilfish + 5 pathfinders, 2 Piranhas, 2 Crisis suits, 1 Broadside, 18 FW, 14 Kroot, 20 Gun Drones

Any advice on tweeking my army would be appreciated
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Old 19 Mar 2007, 14:15   #2 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: 1000pts vs Space Marines - advice?

maybe think about some of your pathfinders taking rail rifles and target locks... basically you need to be thinking about using the ap3 weapons in your army... so maybe a sniper squad ( 3 rail rifles) best choice on the ion cannon. Just my first thoughts anyway
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Old 19 Mar 2007, 22:01   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: 1000pts vs Space Marines - advice?

You have an unused heavy slot I'd look at filling. Ionhead is a solid choice.

Also, if you enjoy rail rifles, sniper teams are more effective than pathfinders with rail rifles, Pathfinders are better at lighting things up, it's a simple decision based on what you need at the time.

However, I would suggest that you look into swapping out the stealths for a pair of firestorms. It's only 8 points more, and you trade a single fusion shot for four missile shots. Also, you gain a wound. It's not flawless, of course, you lack stealth, but since you already have a pricy suit unit on the table thats likely to attract the heavy weapons fire, it's probably a good move.

Deathrains are also a decent option, especially if you expect terminators.
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Old 19 Mar 2007, 22:35   #4 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: 1000pts vs Space Marines - advice?

No point in buying the upgrade to Shas'vre for the second Elite, really. Might give you a few more points to play with. I assume there is a Strain Leader in those Vespids?
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Old 19 Mar 2007, 23:03   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1000pts vs Space Marines - advice?

I'd switch out the Shas'el's MP for the 'Vre's CiB. The BS5 will bring it up to more potential, and with the other MP, you should be taking down a vehicle a turn.

If you need to, TL them and use a HWMT.

Stealth team is upto you, though I would reccomend getting rid of them. They shine at 18+" But their weaponry only goes to 18." A Markerlight may be handy. If you find that you're not landing enough hits, you may look into "Stealthfinders" and get rid of one of the FW squads for 2 Shield Drones. Or amaybe if they agree that you can Jump after "shooting" the ML. Maybe not as efficient as a Pathfinder squad, but they'll be able to take more of a beating due to the Stealth Field.

If he doesn't have too many fists running around, you could try a Ninja'o But I don't know where the points would come from.

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Old 19 Mar 2007, 23:13   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1000pts vs Space Marines - advice?

Ok. I have a few small changes, and most of them are prefference. You may find a good few useful though. (Note: They are assuming that the Marine army is troop-heavy. If it has more than 1-2 tanks, or a land raider, you will have an easy time. Avoid it while giving it a token shot a turn, and destroy the rest of th earmy).

1. Replace the Stealth squad: 3 man stealth squads are highly unuseful. The only reason one might take one would be for the infiltrating fusion, and at such low points you dont need to worry about a mediocre tank buster.

2. Simplify your crisis suits: They are much to expensive (for my taste, anyway). And, for marines, the misslepod isnt as good as twin-linking the plasma. Also, the Shas'vre isn't worth it unless you plan on getting into close-combat. So, change the weapons to TL plasma, reduse from Shas'vre, and use some of those points to give them each a target lock. You are still gaining a few points (7) and get more raw MEQ killing power.

This does not apply to your commander; he is fine. I might comment on
switching out the MP for a fusion though, as its the same price and arguably better at killing MEQ's.


3. Lose the vespids: Unless you are playing objectives (where these guys really shine) they are not worth it. While the can own MEQ', they have no defenses and can't JSJ, and usually die the next turn (this is personal experiance). However, if oyu are playing objectives, or you are good with them, feel free to keep them.

Now, assuming you did everything I said (I dont expect you to), you have a round 200+ points to add with.

4. Add fire warriors: As much as AP 3 toys are appealing for games against marines, mass pulse fire is your best choice. Also, you seem to have a little small fire base. Add one (preferably two) squads, and rock!

5. If that doesn't suit you, another plasma crisis suit or two are great choices. Slightly more expensive than half a fire warrior squad, 3 monats along with your commander can cause major headaches for your opponent, and if he is inexperianced, they can control 1/4-1/3 the board just on his fear to go near them!

6. Finally, never underestimate gun drones. A full squad of 8 will be under-estimated by your opponent, and can get some killing done. A small squad of 4 with extra points can be used to simply tie up long-range powers, like devastators for a few turns to move you high-point tanks/suits around the field.


Just a few ideas!

Cheers!
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Old 20 Mar 2007, 01:41   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1000pts vs Space Marines - advice?

1.) Put the Cyclic Ion Blaster on the Shas'el, not the Shas'vre. BS5 is going to make a far better use of it's AP1 effect, and just shred scouts to hell with decent rolling (2-3 dying outright with no saves, just from the Blaster).

2.) you have excess points in Markerlights on your Fire warriors. That's pretty expensive, considering that you are losing one shot for each that could otherwise be used to wound, just to POTENTIALLY (I have never had decent luck with FW's markerlights) boost your heavy weapons. Splitting your fire is only really good for snipers, tanks, and broadsides.

3.)Throw some kroot on there, just in case. You can run all of your kroot for under 100 pts, which could potentialy save your backside as either a stalling front or a vicious, untouchable harasser. I wouldn't worry too much about losing them...average of a 4+ save with two attacks in melee, and if parked in cover strike first or simo. If he's running an assaulty army, they can tie them up with early dakka, or if the marines are so sure of them selves to attack you, an average of 20+ return attacks if you group right. And don't worry TOO much about blast weapons. The only thing you have to fear is flamers, most everything else they might throw gives you your cover save.

4.) Plasma-loaded broadsides with multi's and shield drones. Nuff said.
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Old 20 Mar 2007, 02:24   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: 1000pts vs Space Marines - advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavfreak
Ok. I have a few small changes, and most of them are prefference. You may find a good few useful though. (Note: They are assuming that the Marine army is troop-heavy. If it has more than 1-2 tanks, or a land raider, you will have an easy time. Avoid it while giving it a token shot a turn, and destroy the rest of th earmy).
Generally a fairly safe bet at this points level, an ionhead in the config he has is highly effective at downing medium and light armor vehicles. The broadside is also effective at pretty much any level of armor. Thus, I wouldnt sweat AT too much in the rest of the list.

Quote:
2. Simplify your crisis suits: They are much to expensive (for my taste, anyway). And, for marines, the misslepod isnt as good as twin-linking the plasma. Also, the Shas'vre isn't worth it unless you plan on getting into close-combat. So, change the weapons to TL plasma, reduse from Shas'vre, and use some of those points to give them each a target lock. You are still gaining a few points (7) and get more raw MEQ killing power.
He doesn't have the upgrade calculated into his point cost, and the second config doesnt have any upgrades that need it. I suggest he swap the CIB out with the MP on his Shas'el, negating the need for any Shas'vre upgrades. I presume you mean targetting array, as target lock is pretty useless on montat suits, which these appear to be. If TA is correct, then the suits in the config you listed will cost 65 points each, and will kill an average of .74 MEQs a turn, double in RF range. The PR/MP/MT config costs 3 points less, and kills an average of .69, 1.11 in RF. However, it would pretty much eat scouts alive. Again, it depends on what you expect to face.

[quote]This does not apply to your commander; he is fine. I might comment on
switching out the MP for a fusion though, as its the same price and arguably better at killing MEQ's.[/quote}

Comparison of fusion vs CIB at BS 5:
Fusion: .69 MEQ kills
CIB: .64
Again, fusion wins out unless you face scouts. The same is definitely true against termies, or comparing against MP. Range does suffer, though, so it depends slightly upon how you intend to use him. Keep in mind that the fusion on a commander does make a good emergency tank buster, though.

Quote:
3. Lose the vespids: Unless you are playing objectives (where these guys really shine) they are not worth it. While the can own MEQ', they have no defenses and can't JSJ, and usually die the next turn (this is personal experiance). However, if oyu are playing objectives, or you are good with them, feel free to keep them.
Agreed. These guys are simply too fragile to get a lot of play. Don't believe me? Check if your local tau players use em. Still don't believe me? Excellent, I have a box Ive been trying to sell for months.

Quote:
Add fire warriors: As much as AP 3 toys are appealing for games against marines, mass pulse fire is your best choice. Also, you seem to have a little small fire base. Add one (preferably two) squads, and rock!
Id suggest abusing heavy choices first. A generic Ionhead with burst and MT runs a mere 120 points, and having multiple tanks is very handy in low-mid point games, as it makes it more likely you'll overload his AT capacity. Alternatively, add a broadside. Speaking of broadsides, your unit looks odd. Specify the secondary weapons system, and remember that you get one non HW upgrade. If in doubt, TA or MT is always handy.

Quote:
5. If that doesn't suit you, another plasma crisis suit or two are great choices. Slightly more expensive than half a fire warrior squad, 3 monats along with your commander can cause major headaches for your opponent, and if he is inexperianced, they can control 1/4-1/3 the board just on his fear to go near them!
Actually, depending on config, they can cost less than that. For example, MT, flamer and burst is a relatively little used config, probably because it requires such close range. However, its cheap enough that it can be risked on say, DSing near a dev squad....they have to waste a turn to deal with it either via assault or shooting, and they cant very well afford to ignore it.

Quote:
6. Finally, never underestimate gun drones. A full squad of 8 will be under-estimated by your opponent, and can get some killing done. A small squad of 4 with extra points can be used to simply tie up long-range powers, like devastators for a few turns to move you high-point tanks/suits around the field.
Actually, I disagree here.

A squadron of four will assuredly not hold up a dev squad for "a few turns". It's roughly a 50/50 shot that they'll go away after the first combat phase, and the odds of them surviving longer than that are minimal. Gun drones are actually better in units, where they are actually cheaper, and can act as extra wounds to protect more expensive units. An 8x gun drone team is only going to kill a single MEQ a turn by shooting, and it absorbs gunfire of any type rather poorly. Sinking the points into, say, an ionhead would provide a lot more firepower, and as a bonus, it's only vulnerable to certain weapons.

Also, I strongly suggest kroot as an alternative to FW. If in range, they kill about the same amount, but they do a lot better in melee. Not to mention, some cleverly deployed woods can allow you to infiltrate them, and get a first turn charge off. =P
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Old 20 Mar 2007, 08:04   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1000pts vs Space Marines - advice?

Thanks for all the advice guys, will definitely implement some of the changes suggested, starting with losing the Vespids and the Stealth Team. Another tank would be nice but the models in the first post is all I have at the moment so it looks like another Crisis Suit and maybe a unit of 8 Gun Drones. I have a general idea of what my mates will bring to the table, they both always take scouts and one of them loves his vehicles so he'll max out on them. Not sure if they will play there Land Raiders in a 1000pt game but even if they do the Broadside and the Piranha should be able to deal with it. We're playing at my house and I have no woods/forest terrain so Kroot are not a good option.

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Old 20 Mar 2007, 12:43   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: 1000pts vs Space Marines - advice?

Well, if you play with area terrain, just use a piece of paper, etc to be "forest terrain". Nobody I know who plays at home has all types of terrain, so we just make do. =)

The other suit is a good deal, definitely, and hey, nobody has all the models they want, using what you have is a great way to get to know the tau arsenal anyhow. =)
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