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Doom Torpedos
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Old 13 Mar 2007, 17:44   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Doom Torpedos

anybody got any counter tactics against doom torpedos (chaos lord & liutenant w/powerfists, bikes, Daemonic Armour, essence and rune[lord only])?
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Old 13 Mar 2007, 17:46   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Doom Torpedos

Skimmer walls.

Use your devilfish, hammerheads and piranhas to get between the bikes and your suits.

Basically form a semi circle or ring so he can't get close. Then you just need to hit them with as much plasma and melta fire as possible.

Not ideal but I can't think of anything much better. If they reach your main battle lines you're dead, you have to stop them somehow.
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Old 13 Mar 2007, 17:57   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Doom Torpedos

thanks
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Old 13 Mar 2007, 18:07   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Doom Torpedos

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Originally Posted by Tao-Avatar
anybody got any counter tactics against doom torpedos (chaos lord & liutenant w/powerfists, bikes, Daemonic Armour, essence and rune[lord only])?
Heya,

Considering I use Torpedos, just look in the Chaos Board to see what mine look like (heh heh) exclusively for hammering on Tau armies, I can tell you what stops them or at least slows down my Torpedo Lords.

First up, why I use the Torpedo:

1 - I'm looking to bully your XV's of all kinds. That's my main goal with the Torpedo. I can move into range very quickly, I can dash through terrain safely due to being an ind. character and I will have a 2+ invulnerable save, 4 wounds and you can't instakill me. The point is to push your suits back and away. If they have to move into terrain, all the better. It won't take me much to get a single wound with that powerfist, your suits will fail to harm my T5 2+ save, and then Daemonic Visage triggers and the suits go south. I'm especially interested in gunning for your XV88's if you have them. Otherwise, I'm heading for any XV's I can get to.

2 - Daemonic Visage is the kill-switch, not the powerfist. The powerfist just ensures I get kills, fast. I only have 4 base attacks, 5 when charging, so long as one hits, I'm going to likely win combat. Plus, I don't want to kill all the models in base to base with me. The point is to allow Visage to kick in (-2 to your leadership), you lose combat and check morale with the modifier, and since you have a model in base to base, I can sweet the unit with my I5 value easily since checking on a Ld6 is pretty good odds of you failing it. If you pass, no big deal, you'll have it happen again on your turn after pile in. If not, you run, I sweep, and we see if you can manage to kill my Torpedo on your turn now that he's not in combat anymore--and it's possible, but it will take a good chunk of your firepower to get it done for sure. So this is a double edged sword--you lose a unit, and you lose a turn of shooting at most of my force, over one model. Meanwhile, my autocannons, lascannons, etc, are all coming down on you. It's not an easy choice to make.

3 - If you separate your army, the Torpedo will basically walk through half of anything on foot. Without the ability to nail him after a combat, he will just zip into another one. If you keep your army tight, you will have more opportunity to focus fire me after an assault finishes, to end the character. You cannot ignore him, since he will nail your models easily. And don't think he can't hurt you skimmers. You may think the odds are low, but a single hit will likely result in a glance and I sure will do it if I have nothing better to do (ie, no where to turboboost, no one to assault). He's always a threat. Always. If I can force you to get your models to stay together mostly, I know I can get most of my guns pointed at most of your army in once place--and I can bully you out of certain kinds of terrain. If you spread out your force, I can focus on one side with guns, and bully with the Torpedo(s) on the other. Either way, it's going to be tough choices for you.

4 - Torpedos are often disguised as combat threats, but are really just there to give you a Fear of Darkness. It's not just Chaos who makes use of these with Lords, it's also a Chaplain or a Libby who's there to either assault you just the same, or scare you off with an ugly FoD cast. Again, the -2 Morale is what we're shooting for to get you to run off, be it a sweep in melee, or to get you off the board by escort. A libby can turboboost, absorb shots, and then hit melee next turn. If he survives a shooting round, FoD will be cast and if he can, likely assault something else. Always pay attention to what the character is, depending on Chaos or Loyalist; if you move in with several units for the kill and fail, a single FoD can devastate you unless you're mechanized.

What stops my Torpedo most often:

A - A brace. The goal is to win combat, have you break morale, and sweep you. Well, if you keep your units in brace-formation, this will likely never happen--unless you pass morale. Just keep one model, or two at most, 2" in front of the rest of the unit and always take up positions where a bottleneck can be made. If all I can assault is your front most models, then the brace will work. I'll kill those models, you will have a big 2" gap and no base to base, and you cannot be swept. If you pass morale, we pile in. If I kill you on your turn with a sweep, you're in serious trouble. If you don't break morale, you just took my character out for likely half the game. Remember, 4~5 attacks is not enough to kill you fast enough because they won't all hit. He needs you to fail morale, to beat your models. Large mobs of firewarriors do well for this. Kroot do not do well for this (they break morale almost effortlessly, unless you spend lots of points and get that Shaper in there, in which case, Kroot are better than FW for this job). This can work for or against you though. But the point is, it can stall a turn. If it's turn 5, this can be useful.

B - If you know I'm going to win combat and I'm likely to sweep you in the same turn, that means I'll be out of combat and sitting without a turboboost invulnerable save for your next shooting phase. Kroot & Drones are excellent for this as they have low morale, and low cost. That's Ld5 with Visage on them. Guarding suits with Kroot will have me after Kroot because I will have no choice. If they die from a sweep, the best inv. save I will have will be a 5+. Get that fusion and plasma to work on the model and it will go away. Don't bother with pulse fire. Only AP2 or better should be fired here. Kill him on your turn due to him being out of assault, and net yourself 205 victory points fast.

C - Mechanization itself is a great deterrent to the Torpedo. It's significantly weak without infantry for it to bounce on. Hybrid and Static are vulnerable and it will be a problem. Mechanization can limit movement, avoid most of the damage it can cause through the nature of the skimmer, and can allow you to focus on my army, instead of my character, without too much concern. Just get a single wound for the 1/2 VP's and then move on. Killing them takes a whole turn of serious firepower, sometimes two turns depending on what guns you have. It's just not worth wasting time on, if you don't have to. So consider this; mech armies have the advantage here.

Cheers,

Couldn't resist. Good advice. +1 - Khanaris
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Old 14 Mar 2007, 00:18   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Doom Torpedos

That sounds really nasty. Even the "solutions" don't sound too good I must admit as bottlenecks for instance aren't always going to be possible (nor is a mechanized force or expendable units). Still, nifty tactic.


Out of curiosity is this the kind of thing people are talking about when they say that chaos is arguably the most powerful Codex at the moment? Not claiming it's beardy, just curious as it sounds very nasty.
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Old 14 Mar 2007, 00:34   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Doom Torpedos

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Originally Posted by FOXX
Out of curiosity is this the kind of thing people are talking about when they say that chaos is arguably the most powerful Codex at the moment? Not claiming it's beardy, just curious as it sounds very nasty.
Not at all,

This is possible in every Marine army with access to bikes. Loyalist marines have Artificer armor; the bike does the rest. Chaos has Daemonic armor. Effectively the same thing. Both have access to an item to prevent instant death too.

Chaos gets the `power' nod for oldy goldy things, like Siren. Nothing else is truly over done in Chaos. There's no reason to even begin claiming Chaos has the power when the new Space Marine codex completely blows it out of the water in terms of overall power nature right out of the codex. Traits and access to Drop Pods alone make it disgustingly good, not to mention the awesome power of the Librarians which puts Chaos Sorcerers to shame and a far better mechanized fleet of vehicles/artillery and the wholesome all-access assault cannon.

The `Torpedo' is simply a specialty type of character used to bully/distract enemy shooting armies that want to avoid assault at all costs. You will find few folk who use them as they are not cheap at all (see above, typical ones run nearly 200 points). You're more likely to find Chaos players using Infiltration & Daemonic Speed ensemble, as it grants first turn assault in missions that allow infiltration and the Chaos player gets first turn. That generally always gets complaints.

Cheers,
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Old 14 Mar 2007, 02:28   #7 (permalink)
Tyr
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Default Re: Doom Torpedos

I know mine always does. >
Still I find that my chaos lord is actually one of the most vulnerable things in my chaos army.
You can charge him into a tactical squad of marines and he could easily die (to power fist) unless I buy a 35point deamonic gift. Plus the whole caught out in the open thing is murder.
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Old 14 Mar 2007, 18:39   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Doom Torpedos

while this is obviously not reliable my 6 man stealth team was charged by those 2 and the stealths beat the tar out of them losing only 2 men ;D
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Old 15 Mar 2007, 02:22   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Doom Torpedos

But of course! Haven't you watched what happens when someone sneaks up on Sam Fisher?


Sneaky sneaky STAB sneaky sneaky sneaky SHOOT sneaky CRACK.
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