[daniel.wilson]

This is a concept I considered some time ago, but never really used. However, I've been thinking about it, now that I have a stealth squad, and I'm thinking I'll have to give it a go.

The initial concept was to use 6 stealthsuits with 12 gun drones for a huge, fast, stealthed pulse fire battery that can use markerlights more efficiently than any other unit, bar none. I've never heard of anyone using it. I think most people were baffled by what to do with such a huge unit.

I'm thinking of using smaller squads. 3 stealthsuits with drone controllers and 6 gun drones provide the following profile: Jet pack infantry, 15 shots, stealth fields, J-S-J capability, 9 wounds for 160 points, including bonding and team leader.

A basic stealth team would be: 18 shots… 6 wounds for 190 points(bonding, team ldr).

Fire Warriors as a static team have the following profile: Infantry, 24/12 shots, 12 wounds for 135 points, including Ui leader and bonding.

As a Devilfish mounted squad: Infantry 27/15 shots, 12 wounds for 215 points.

As a Warfish mounted squad: Infantry 31/19 shots, 12 wounds for 260 points.

Here comes the mathy parts. The efficiency of the squads is as follows.

Super Stealth team: 4.5+3.333 = 7.833 hits for 20.4 points/hit
Basic Stealth team: 9 hits for 21.11 points/hit
Static Fire Warriors: 12/6 hits for 11.25/22.5 points/hit
Devilfish Fire Warriors: 13.5/7.5 hits for 15.92/31.8 points/hit
Warfish Fire Warriors: 12/6+4.66 hits for 15.6/24.375 points/hit

The immediate effects appear that the Super Stealth team performs slightly better than everything else at 12-18” range. While the static fire warriors appear to be the clear winners when rapid firing, it’s rare that such an opportunity will present itself to a Tau player with static forces. While FoF tactics are better at getting opportunities for rapid fire, turns are lost loading and moving troops to a good FoF ambush location. The stealth suits should be capable of firing more often, which isn’t taken into account when calculating point efficiency, and should be taking less losses using stealthfields and J-S-J correctly.

The good points efficiency of static firewarriors at long range makes them an excellent long range attack force. Should the enemy have little cover, one could use basic static firewarriors to effectively attack at 30" range. Such a force would be almost as effective as a full stealth suit squad at half the range, except with twice the wounds. However, as a static force, it's effectiveness is largely determined by the table you play on and where you can set up. This is less of an issue with the more mobile stealth suits.

The numbers can be manipulated a bit. Some people maybe don't use bonding or take a Shas'ui for firewarriors. I based the units on the units I like to use.

Is this a good tactic? I'll let you know how it works out for me.

[T0nkaTruckDriver]

Daniel, the issues you'll run into are the following:

- vulnerability to AP4 weapons (speeders will be VERY deadly now)

- large footprint (more vulnerable to indirect fire and assault, harder to hide behind LoS blocking terrain)

- larger point cost (more of a target)


In short, you just have to play more cautiously with them. Good luck!

[daniel.wilson]

I think that a "super" stealth squad compared to a basic stealth squad has the following advantages: more wounds, less points, pinning tests, and gundrones can be removed first as casualties. The footprint is slightly larger, but still smaller than a squad of fire warriors. And with the stealth field effects, you have better protection from indirect fire than fire warriors.

The AP:4 vulnerability is an issue. Land speeders can definitely be good against such a unit. Fortunately, a fire warrior can pop a land speeder from 30". I've never found them to be an issue. I don't see them much, though.

I don't understand what you mean by larger point cost. You get more wounds for less points with this idea, and similar firepower, when compared to droneless stealth suits.

Your note about assault vulnerability got me thinking.

6 stealthsuits(180 pts minimum, 6 wounds) assaulting get (2+1)*6 attacks for 18 charging, 12 defending.
3 stealthsuits and 6 drones(150 pts minimum, 9 wounds) assaulting get (2+1)*3 + (1+1)*6 for 21 charging, 12 defending.

Heck, let's have equal representation here.
4 stealthsuits and 6 drones(180 pts minimum, 10 wounds) assaulting get 24 charging and 14 defending

There's some other factors. Gun drones have less armor and strength than a stealth suit, but higher initiative.

I doubt this gives super-stealths a decisive advantage when assaulting over normal stealthsuits, but it's interesting to see.

[Impulse]

Actually, I find that an excellent idea. Bar the cost in $$, you get an infiltrating, JSJ FW team for roughly the same pionts as a normal team.

With that you can have the FW teams static (usually I have them in a WF), so it's cheaper plus, I can have a buried markerlight, which might turn VERY useful for SST!

[T pok]

Omg, tonka is back!

I would say that the 6 man stealth with the 12 gundrones is more effienient though. You are able to field a much larger unit that will provide more shots. It is also able to give you 18 stealth's and 36 gundrones. Truly a large amount of stealthy models is always good.

I tried this with a proxy once though.(4 suits though) And it was a bit hard to coordinate with other units because of all the bases. It was a bit hard to maneuver through a urban environment. It would seem very good though in a more open environment.

[Damian_Alpha]

Do keep in mind that the stealth team is under night fighting effects for being shot at. 50-60% of the time, the enemy won't be hitting them anyway, and they have nothing to fear from direct-fire weapons more than 36" away. A static fire warrior army, however, is going to be constantly losing models, and the enemy can position vital long-range weaponry out of range. 30" is a big bite of terrain, but it still only covers so much.

Also, what would the effects of markerlights have on that? A static FW force gets out a less shots at long range, but they do get a whole load of shots closer in. Now, in rapidfire, the FW's could decimate. But with 4 markerlight counters(assuming they are being supported by a full squad of pathfinders at BS3) and two FW squads, you have 24 BS5 hits. With the Stealth force, you would get 18 BS5 shots and 12 BS3 twin-linked pinning shots...for a total of 30 shots (6 additional over the FW/path combo) for just an additional 50 points, with J-S-J and fewer casualties. I'd say it's well worth that mere 50 points.

[munkey]

i have seen the 6 man 12 drone config. and it works really well.

[Malcaor]

I am pretty sure that when a drone joins a battlesut unit it has 3+ save (same touchness and save as the unit it follows) but don't have the codex on hand so i cnat double check.

[PacoQuerak]

nope, that is only sheild drones.

This unit is cool too because it can swarm units and perform pretty well in assault.

[daniel.wilson]

Originally Posted by munkey

i have seen the 6 man 12 drone config. and it works really well.

I'd have liked to see that. Seems unwieldly with any decent amount of cover.

Originally Posted by Malcaor

I am pretty sure that when a drone joins a battlesut unit it has 3+ save (same touchness and save as the unit it follows) but don't have the codex on hand so i cnat double check.

I wish... PacoQuerak is correct.

Originally Posted by Damian_Alpha

Do keep in mind that the stealth team is under night fighting effects for being shot at. 50-60% of the time, the enemy won't be hitting them anyway, and they have nothing to fear from direct-fire weapons more than 36" away. A static fire warrior army, however, is going to be constantly losing models, and the enemy can position vital long-range weaponry out of range. 30" is a big bite of terrain, but it still only covers so much.

Also, what would the effects of markerlights have on that? A static FW force gets out a less shots at long range, but they do get a whole load of shots closer in. Now, in rapidfire, the FW's could decimate. But with 4 markerlight counters(assuming they are being supported by a full squad of pathfinders at BS3) and two FW squads, you have 24 BS5 hits. With the Stealth force, you would get 18 BS5 shots and 12 BS3 twin-linked pinning shots...for a total of 30 shots (6 additional over the FW/path combo) for just an additional 50 points, with J-S-J and fewer casualties. I'd say it's well worth that mere 50 points.

I consider J-S-J more reliable than the stealth field. The stealth field is good to have when you're trying to race across open terrain to get behind the next cover.

I believe I covered markerlights in the Mega squad post. The huge, 6 stealth, 12 drone team can use markerlights more efficiently than any other unit in the game. With 30 shots, you improve the BS (or other firing effects) more than even a full squad of firewarriors. Two rapid-firing firewarrior squads can get more shots, but you need twice the markerlight hits. A Mega squad can have BS improved, pinning check improved, and cover saves negated, using up the markerlight hits from one squad of Pathfinders (3-5 ML hits).

I'm dropping the Pathfinders, though, so the smaller 3 stealth, 6 drone teams look like a better option for my game.

Originally Posted by Impulse

Actually, I find that an excellent idea. Bar the cost in $$, you get an infiltrating, JSJ FW team for roughly the same pionts as a normal team.

With that you can have the FW teams static (usually I have them in a WF), so it's cheaper plus, I can have a buried markerlight, which might turn VERY useful for SST!

The FoF tactic works well, but only provides marginal protection for the firewarriors after they exit the vehicle (cover save and target priority tests). Like you say, you have a FW squad that infiltrates, JSJs, has stealth, etc.


I wish I could've made these stealth teams Troop choices... [drool] That'd leave a lot of slots for some support crisis suits.