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Weakaning The Squad - Drones
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Old 01 Feb 2005, 22:53   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Weakaning The Squad - Drones

With the new rules having drones in your broad side or crisis suit squads makes it easier to wound the suits. Does anyone else think this sucks.
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Old 01 Feb 2005, 22:56   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Weakaning The Squad - Drones

In a three crisis team, you can have up to six drones. Drones are then the majority toughness and save, so as long as the unit the drones are a part of is smaller in number than the number of drones in the unit, everything is fine.

If you end up getting drones peeled off through shooting or close combat, then the crisis team becomes more vulnerable.

It's really only when the number of non-Drone models exceeds the number of Drone models that it sucks. And even then, if you have Gun Drons, say, in a FW unit, the toughness and armor are all the same so you can remove casualties from Drones first. Shield Drones in FW units make little sense now, and I think that's the rationalle (odd though it is) for lumping Drones under majority T/Save rules.
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Old 01 Feb 2005, 23:06   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Weakaning The Squad - Drones

But technically, don't shield drones have the same armor save as a FW? I know that the shield drone's save is invuln, but they are both 4+, so technically, their save is the same is it not?
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Old 01 Feb 2005, 23:35   #4 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Weakaning The Squad - Drones

Well, they have the ability to survive AP4 weaponry, which is often targeted at battlesuits. That being said, you can get royally screwed if you take more heavy hits in a turn than you have drones, because those extra hit get resolved on the battlesuits but at the lower toughness of the drones. Shield generators are usually a better bet now.
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Old 02 Feb 2005, 00:18   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Weakaning The Squad - Drones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elyas
But technically, don't shield drones have the same armor save as a FW? I know that the shield drone's save is invuln, but they are both 4+, so technically, their save is the same is it not?
Nope. Shield Dones save is invulnerable. They are a bizzare exception in that they dont' have the option to take a normal aarmor save or the INV save. They have no armor save, just the INV save, so they must take the INV save.

Now, they have the same toughness, but this will only matter in units where they are the majority model.

Wacky, huh?
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Old 02 Feb 2005, 00:20   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Weakaning The Squad - Drones

I don't think Crisis suits will have to make rolls using the toughness of the Drones. If I understand correctly, majority saves only dictates the order in which hits are allocated. In other words, the rule only says that you have to allocate hits to the majority/lower save/toughness first, but you still use the models toughness/save for the roll. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense.
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Old 02 Feb 2005, 00:40   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Weakaning The Squad - Drones

Ahh, yes, but majority Toughness comes first, so you have to look at that to determine how many wounds the unit takes to begin with - before majority saves allows to to save from those wounds.

Messed up, eh?

So, if you have 3 crisis and 4 drones (say the Shas'vre wants a target lock instead of a controller) then here's what goes down after the enemy shoots and rolls ...mmm...7 hits.

Hits are, let's say, S4. Okay. Majority T is 3: Drones. Enemy player rolls 7 chances to wound versus majority needing 3s. About average would be 5 making it through.

So now, majority saves kicks in and that, too, is Drones, but these are Shield Drones so that doesn't matter. But things start to get wierd as soon as Drones start dropping. If he loses 1 Drone to a failed save, then the rules for majority state that "if it is a tie, then the worse type is assumed to be in the majority". What happens here is pretty strange, because that means that until a Crisis suit drops, thier worse save is assumed to be in majority. Once one dies, the Drones are back in majority and can use thier saves.

Even stranger, however, is that each model (after majority is taken into account) must be allocated 1 hit to save against. In the situation above, there's a 7 model unti taking 7 hits - even hits going around. But if the majority save roll loses a single Drone, each model is allocated a single wound anyway by the "Set Rule" (number 5, pg76). So there's no way to kill off one of those Crisis suits right away because of thier multi-wound status, unless the weapon in question is a multi-shot S6 because of Insta-kill rules.

<takes deep breath>

Luckily, the "Set Rule" allows a majority Drone unit to take all incoming hits/wounds against Drones first, and it does this every phase in which it takes hits/wounds. You roll based on the majority save, period. Wounds from that hit/wound "Set" affect the models with that save first, other models second.

So Drones aren't obsolete or crappy now or anything. They just have a much different role now under v4 than before under v3.
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[size=8pt]Forge World Rules and Models[/size]
[size=8pt]Crisis Configurations[/size]
[size=8pt]Gue'vesa: Tau Human Auxiliary rules[/size]
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Old 02 Feb 2005, 03:07   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Weakaning The Squad - Drones

Sounds pretty silly to me. Why didn't they just tell you to allocate your hits to w/e model you liked (as per the normal rules) and calculate wounds/saves from there? At the very least, they could have done majority toughness the same way as majority saves...
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Old 02 Feb 2005, 09:40   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Weakaning The Squad - Drones

Quote:
Originally Posted by AunLa


So, if you have 3 crisis and 4 drones (say the Shas'vre wants a target lock instead of a controller) then here's what goes down after the enemy shoots and rolls ...mmm...7 hits.

Hits are, let's say, S4. Okay. Majority T is 3: Drones. Enemy player rolls 7 chances to wound versus majority needing 3s. About average would be 5 making it through.

No the way is different, the enemy hit for to hit. In your example 7 hits then he roll 4 to wound rolls against toughnes 3 of the drones, and 3 to wound rolls against T4 of the suits. And then you roll the saves for both crisis and drones separatly.

This rule mean that no longer the drones ae removed exclusively before other models.
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Old 02 Feb 2005, 11:03   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Weakaning The Squad - Drones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogen
No the way is different, the enemy hit for to hit. In your example 7 hits then he roll 4 to wound rolls against toughnes 3 of the drones, and 3 to wound rolls against T4 of the suits.
Unfortunately you're mistaken. Read page 23, under the Multiple toughness section carefully. The 2nd sentence spells it out clear: The majority toughness is used for determining all wounds.

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