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Importance of first turn
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Old 12 Feb 2007, 15:06   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Importance of first turn

Did a search, and came out empty, but I am sure this has been discussed already.

I had a quick game yesterday against the IG. Normally I never get first turn for some reason, but this time I did. I zoomed on the sides, and crushed about half his army in 1 turn and had blasted his battle tank by turn 2.

In the subsequent turns, there was little he could do, and the board was clear of IG by turn 3.

One of the thing that was blindly obvious was the advantage I'dvehad by having the first turn.

So we played a second round, keeping the same deployment as game 1, but with IG having the first turn. Sure enough, his battle tank connected with my hammerhead on turn 1, and after 6 turns, it was a draw.

Another interesting point that came out during game 1 was whether or not reserves could come on with noone left on the table. We asked around and read through the big book , and found no literal help. We concluded that if the army is gone before the reserves comes in, then the reserves rolls cannot be made.

I play fantasy and 40K and have noticed a huge difference in the usefulness of having turn 1. Many times in fantasy I have left my opponent with the first turn, but it seems that with 40k, especially with the TAU, first turn is of premium importance.

What is your experience of this phenomenon?
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Old 12 Feb 2007, 15:13   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Importance of first turn

Well, I have noticed that games over 1000points tend to be first turn games, and as I never got the first turn, I learned this can be avoided by placing all your stuff well so that it is behind area terrain, or there is nightfight rules. This goes a long way to fixing this flaw.
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Old 12 Feb 2007, 15:34   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Importance of first turn

One thing I want to point out before I start. If you're army is wiped out but there's still reserves to come in then the game's not over. The reserves will still arrive. There's nothing to stop them from doing so. Hell some armies intentionally start 100% in reserve and base much of their strategy off of it, the prime example being a space marine drop pod force.

As for the importance of first turn:

90% of the time I prefer to go second. During deployment I do my best to ensure that the majority of my army will be out of sight or out of range of the enemy weapons that I don't want to deal with. This means that he has to move towards me on turn one, meaning my first turn will herald the commencement of my counter attack.

Additionally going second means I get last turn. This is great, it's a huge benefit. It means I can recklessly grab objectives and expose troops to the enemy without worrying about the consequences. I have won many games simply by going second, biding my time and delivering a killing blow and land grab at the last second.

Essentially it's the epitome of Kauyon, with the objective itself acting as the lure while the rest of my army lies in wait and pounces.
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Old 12 Feb 2007, 15:38   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Importance of first turn

First turn is important in games where there is not enough terrain to deny your opponent shots on the first turn. Otherwise, I'd rather go second, which is much better for being able to claim objectives.

It sounds, from your description, that either, there was not enough terrain on your table, or that both of you deployed poorly. If you get your hammerhead shot on turn 1, you're doing something wrong.
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Old 12 Feb 2007, 15:46   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Importance of first turn

I agree with Falstead and RedBeard - getting first turn really is only important if its a "kill or be killed" situation. If you`re playing about objectives, table quarters etc. getting LAST turn is much more imporant - especially if you`re playing a Mech Force.

IŽll use one of my last games as example: I played against Imperial Fists. He had first turn. Shot down 2 of my three Hammerheads (No, I didn`t deploy bad. But he had AWESOME luck with his dice, turning two glancing hits into vehicles destroyed results).
But after turn two (when he killed my last Head), he didn`t hurt any of my models anymore - and I could claim the mission objective with the rest of my forces, scoring a draw.

So, really, if you win the roll who starts the game, taking first turn shouldn`t always be an automatic answer. If you deployd well, and he can`t harm you during his first turn, then let him take first turn. The advantages can be huuuuge!
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Old 12 Feb 2007, 16:00   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Importance of first turn

hidding a hammerhead wont do any good against ordonance weapons. he can still target it wherever the hammerhead is.

As for the reserve being able to arrive on the table even when the whole of the army has been deployed, I am dubious. Even those drop pods armies have at least a unit of scout on the table.

It just doesnt say anywhere in the book. It would make logical sense to me that if the army is wiped out before the reserves get in, then the reserves wouldn't have anyone on the ground to make contact with, surely that would be a bad sign, wouldnt it?
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Old 12 Feb 2007, 16:07   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Importance of first turn

Not all drop pod armies need or have a unit of scouts on board first turn. Actually taking scouts would probably be a bit of a disadvantage to that army.

1 scout squad vs. 1500 points of enemy shooting = smoking combat boots.

Look at it this way, reserves are coming in to reinforce friendly troops. The friendlies call for back up, reserves are dispatched and arrive after the friendlies are all annihilated. They're not just going to shrug their shoulders and go home, they'll try to get a bit of retribution and recover valuable equipment and any wounded soldiers.

You say it doesn't say in the rule book but I ask you this: Where does it say that they wouldn't come in if everything else was dead?
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Old 12 Feb 2007, 16:24   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Importance of first turn

Quote:
It just doesnt say anywhere in the book. It would make logical sense to me that if the army is wiped out before the reserves get in, then the reserves wouldn't have anyone on the ground to make contact with, surely that would be a bad sign, wouldnt it?
Ever played Escalation? If you`re facing an all-infiltrating enemy army, having only corpses on the field by turn two (since your heavy equipment is still rollin` in) is quite probable.
No, just becuase you have nothng on the table doesn`t mean you`ve lost (otherwise MY army would never win an Omega mission - in Escalation, I start with ZERO units on the table...).
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Old 12 Feb 2007, 16:55   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Importance of first turn

Theirs too many variables to consider to straight out say that 1st turn is always key, so IMO, it's not. I've managed to take out a SOB army in 4 turns, when they got 1st turn. But then, I had luck on my side (yea, he had the misfortune of taking 4 light vehicles ;D). Of course you can also throw in the Fact that Tau live for long range firepower, taking 2nd turn pretty much mean your opponent will open the game moving into your weapons range.

As for the reserves rule, I agree with the others, nothing in the book indicates that reserves don't come if you wipe out his existing army. The game is played to 6 turns regardless, and your opponent gets to roll for reserves each turn. I've also seen it played this way in Battlereports in WD, but I'll have to doublecheck if they said anything about it.
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Old 12 Feb 2007, 16:56   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Importance of first turn

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Originally Posted by guillaume
hidding a hammerhead wont do any good against ordonance weapons. he can still target it wherever the hammerhead is.

As for the reserve being able to arrive on the table even when the whole of the army has been deployed, I am dubious. Even those drop pods armies have at least a unit of scout on the table.

It just doesnt say anywhere in the book. It would make logical sense to me that if the army is wiped out before the reserves get in, then the reserves wouldn't have anyone on the ground to make contact with, surely that would be a bad sign, wouldnt it?
He can only hit you with ordnance that is indirect which in the 40k tournament list is the mortar and basilisk only. His battlecannons and demolisher guns can't hit you without LOS. So hiding does work

As for the reserver roll the only army which can lose its reserves are the necrons as phase out roll is calculated by the number of models in play or by killling the monolith which would otherwise bring them in from reserve
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